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Old 7 Nov 2018, 13:12 (Ref:3861622)   #551
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A resounding NO!!!

Seriously, then it wouldn't be Formula One anymore, as stated previously by another poster.
These are only potential solutions. No one is saying F1 should adopt a whole raft of ideas, that would make F1 unrecognisable. As it is, F1 has borrowed quite a lot from IndyCar, over the decades. Fuel stops; though no more, tyre stops, the option tyre, the pace car/safety car.
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Old 7 Nov 2018, 16:24 (Ref:3861658)   #552
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As it is, F1 has borrowed quite a lot from IndyCar, over the decades. Fuel stops; though no more, tyre stops, the option tyre, the pace car/safety car.
Trust me, I know. Quite the shame, no?
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Old 8 Nov 2018, 11:21 (Ref:3861787)   #553
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Trust me, I know. Quite the shame, no?
You've got us there I fear, but maybe F1 can now learn something good like how to make the cars less sensitive to wake turbulence.
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Old 8 Nov 2018, 17:20 (Ref:3861838)   #554
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I've just read an interesting article by Ben Anderson on the Autosport site where he's discussing how to 'spice up the show' of F1. He mentions the plan of ditching qualifying and starting the cars in reverse championship order on the grid. Although this is artificial it should instantly solve one of the problems we have all been moaning about, the current inability for the cars to run closely behind another and then make an overtake. Instead of designing a car that is the fastest when out on its own (and hoping that a good qualifying would make this possible), the clever designers would have to create a car that could run in traffic and therefore battle their way to the front.
Not an ideal solution maybe, but I see at least the glimmer of a solution in that.
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Old 8 Nov 2018, 17:37 (Ref:3861844)   #555
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i would like to see this tried out a few times to see if the idea has merit before i dismiss it outright as a gimmick...(same goes for the sprinklers).

one issue for me would be that the 'gimmick' would only add to the 'spectacle' for the first several laps and then it would be back to the same.

as we see every time a top car finds themselves further back at the start that it only takes them a couple of laps before they are near to the front again.

dont get me wrong though...its usually a fantastic and frantic couple of laps particularly when you put Max at the back.

but the speed differential between the top cars (those that would presumably be leading the title battle) and the rest of the pack is such that they are still going to make short work of the midfield cars in front of them.

that said..imo its an idea worthy of trial and with 20plus races a season some differentiation in GP weekend formats would be a welcome addition.
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Old 8 Nov 2018, 17:51 (Ref:3861845)   #556
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The problem with that is that qualifying can be just as thrilling as the race, sometimes even more so. Especially since that's the only time in the weekend anyone gets to see these cars running at full speed (as sad as that is).
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Old 8 Nov 2018, 18:08 (Ref:3861847)   #557
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indeed. saturdays are quite enjoyable and also for live spectators. a meaningful replacement session would be required to justify their paid attendance.

a hybrid idea of a sprint race (15 laps for the to try to get to the front) run in reverse championship order in lieu of the quali session could work.

but then you would have to change the PU allotment rules, relax parc ferme and work hours to allow for repairs, more tires...all of which would cost more money etc etc...i guess F1 is just to complicated to allow for these sorts of changes!
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Old 8 Nov 2018, 20:32 (Ref:3861863)   #558
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Let’s just keep qualifying as it is and focus on the racing being closer
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Old 8 Nov 2018, 20:35 (Ref:3861866)   #559
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The problem with that is that qualifying can be just as thrilling as the race, sometimes even more so. Especially since that's the only time in the weekend anyone gets to see these cars running at full speed (as sad as that is).
Plus 1 to this!

When the race winner has been doing laps 12 seconds off the pole time ...
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Old 8 Nov 2018, 20:43 (Ref:3861869)   #560
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but then you would have to change the PU allotment rules, relax parc ferme and work hours to allow for repairs, more tires...
I don't see that as a bad thing
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Old 8 Nov 2018, 22:57 (Ref:3861886)   #561
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Are the 2019 technical regulations the right step forward, with regards to how to fix F1?

http://classic.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/139916
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Old 9 Nov 2018, 02:26 (Ref:3861902)   #562
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Originally Posted by VIVA GT View Post
I've just read an interesting article by Ben Anderson on the Autosport site where he's discussing how to 'spice up the show' of F1. He mentions the plan of ditching qualifying and starting the cars in reverse championship order on the grid. Although this is artificial it should instantly solve one of the problems we have all been moaning about, the current inability for the cars to run closely behind another and then make an overtake. Instead of designing a car that is the fastest when out on its own (and hoping that a good qualifying would make this possible), the clever designers would have to create a car that could run in traffic and therefore battle their way to the front.
Not an ideal solution maybe, but I see at least the glimmer of a solution in that.
I especially agree with the removal of telemetry, put the emphasis back on the driver and engineer rather than the bloke in the simulator.
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Old 9 Nov 2018, 06:42 (Ref:3861921)   #563
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Are the 2019 technical regulations the right step forward, with regards to how to fix F1?

http://classic.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/139916
Nothing done at all, just even more emphasis on the power units.

They have removed the subtle aerodynamics at the ends of the wings, and have then made the wings bigger and even more horsepower necessary to push them through the air.
The bigger front wing with more downforce available will not help with wake turbulence for the overtaking car.

DRS will be more effective - yay!
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Old 9 Nov 2018, 07:53 (Ref:3861927)   #564
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i would like to see this tried out a few times to see if the idea has merit before i dismiss it outright as a gimmick...(same goes for the sprinklers).

one issue for me would be that the 'gimmick' would only add to the 'spectacle' for the first several laps and then it would be back to the same.

as we see every time a top car finds themselves further back at the start that it only takes them a couple of laps before they are near to the front again.

dont get me wrong though...its usually a fantastic and frantic couple of laps particularly when you put Max at the back.

but the speed differential between the top cars (those that would presumably be leading the title battle) and the rest of the pack is such that they are still going to make short work of the midfield cars in front of them.

that said..imo its an idea worthy of trial and with 20plus races a season some differentiation in GP weekend formats would be a welcome addition.
Thanks chillibowl.
Sorry, but I've been thinking a bit more about this reverse grid idea. (Don't worry, I'm not starting a new crusade!). This differs from the situation we've had so far where the odd 'front runner' has started from the back because he's been significantly faster than the other back of the grid cars so has been able to get past them more easily. Essentially, each row of the grid should be slightly quicker than the one in front (I appreciate there would be the odd anomaly), so they won't be able to get in front anywhere near as easily, which should make the racing more exciting, and it will be essential that the cars are able to run in close traffic for quite some time (if not almost the whole race) which would also add to the spectacle. I accept that it's false, a gimmick or whatever you want to call it, but then so are many of the other rules that have been foisted on F1 such as DRS, tyres that 'have' to degrade, and having to run two different tyre compounds for example. I think it could work...
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Old 9 Nov 2018, 08:26 (Ref:3861932)   #565
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Nothing done at all, just even more emphasis on the power units.

They have removed the subtle aerodynamics at the ends of the wings, and have then made the wings bigger and even more horsepower necessary to push them through the air.
The bigger front wing with more downforce available will not help with wake turbulence for the overtaking car.

DRS will be more effective - yay!
Saw that too. Just focus on getting rid of the aero we don't need like Bargeboards and focus more on underfloor downforce. And making DRS more effective will only make things worse. Make it so that drivers have to overtake
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Old 9 Nov 2018, 08:28 (Ref:3861933)   #566
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Get rid of the floor that extends beyond the bodywork. Or make the bodywork extend to the width of the floor.
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Old 9 Nov 2018, 23:14 (Ref:3862071)   #567
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Saw that too. Just focus on getting rid of the aero we don't need like Bargeboards and focus more on underfloor downforce. And making DRS more effective will only make things worse. Make it so that drivers have to overtake
I see they took a bunch of strakes off the underside of the front wing too, this is probably the least effected of the front wing surfaces, ground effect, and now they have reduced its efficiency, makes no sense.
The other good thing imo is that when a car goes farming, it knocks the strakes off the underside of the wing and reduces its effectiveness for the rest of the race - good penalty!

Last edited by wnut; 9 Nov 2018 at 23:22.
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Old 10 Nov 2018, 01:55 (Ref:3862087)   #568
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F1 needs Cost Caps: Mercedes Boss (Toto Wolff)

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/n...-cost-caps-now

Mercedes board beginning to arc up at the cost of buying F1 titles Toto?

First cost cap is the price of the Power Units that is being inflicted on the customer teams in my book.
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Old 10 Nov 2018, 08:44 (Ref:3862111)   #569
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Definitely we need to encourage more teams to come into the sport. There's room for more
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Old 10 Nov 2018, 10:09 (Ref:3862116)   #570
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wolfhound should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridwolfhound should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridwolfhound should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridwolfhound should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
A discussion was held between the drivers Ross Brawn, Charlie Whiting, and Mario Isola of Pirelli on the future direction of F1 and tyres in Brazil.
Is this the first time the drivers have been consulted as a group? I hope it is a step in the right direction as they are asking for cars that can follow each other closely and be able to race on the tyres rather than conserving them for strategy reasons.

http://classic.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/139948
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Old 10 Nov 2018, 16:53 (Ref:3862164)   #571
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Pirelli are to introduce a thinner tyre tread for 2019.

http://classic.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/139960
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Old 10 Nov 2018, 18:17 (Ref:3862184)   #572
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Pirelli are to introduce a thinner tyre tread for 2019.

http://classic.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/139960
Interesting comment in there -

Extreme tyre management has been a theme of several grands prix this year, with drivers forced to be "completely cruising" at times to keep temperatures under control.

Isn't that only half of the issue? They lift and coast from start to finish to make it on fuel. These tyres won't change that.
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Old 11 Nov 2018, 11:04 (Ref:3862364)   #573
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Interesting comment in there -

Extreme tyre management has been a theme of several grands prix this year, with drivers forced to be "completely cruising" at times to keep temperatures under control.

Isn't that only half of the issue? They lift and coast from start to finish to make it on fuel. These tyres won't change that.
The fuel problem is only going to get worse with the wider less efficient wings and deeper DRS that the FIA/FOM are touting for 2018 too.

Does anybody have an overview of the implications and effects of the rules they change?
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Old 11 Nov 2018, 15:07 (Ref:3862401)   #574
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The fuel problem is only going to get worse with the wider less efficient wings and deeper DRS that the FIA/FOM are touting for 2018 too.

Does anybody have an overview of the implications and effects of the rules they change?
Autosport included a video, in the article I posted, http://classic.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/139916, that gave an overview.
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Old 13 Nov 2018, 21:22 (Ref:3863164)   #575
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Autosport included a video, in the article I posted, http://classic.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/139916, that gave an overview.
I had not seen this post BJ, and still can't see the video.

The regulations that the FIA / FOM make never seem to be coordinated, they give the cars an extra fuel allowance to ensure that they don't lift and coast to save fuel during the races. Next rule, make the front wing wider and make the end plates less efficient, i.e. add drag to the car to use up the increased fuel, back to lift and coast. Next rule make the tyres last better so that they can race, but they are lifting and coasting to save fuel anyway.

So who has an idea of the overall effect of what they are doing?
Brawn? Why isn't he doing his job?
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