[WEC] LMP Future Regulations (was Le Mans EVO rules - now hypercar rules)

[TF110]

Originally Posted by GasperG

The formula is simple and posted on Wikipedia, the unknown is the type of fuel used (energy density), that is why I used word "around" 36% efficiency.

They use shell iirc. It's not as good as those used in F1 in terms of energy density.

[hondafan37]

Interesting reflections by Stefan Johansson:
"The 'Hypercars' will look like GT cars with bodywork, so why not use the current GTE / GTLM? Remove the existing restrictions in the BOP Let each constructor build the best car possible, which is exactly what will happen to the 'hypercar' category. Let's say that the legislator requires each manufacturer to approve a GT for this category with unrestricted engines.Most of the road cars of the current constructors develop approximately 800 horses.It would be relatively easy to get 800 horses to start with, give them 10% more aerodynamic support, wider tires and wider wheel arches, the cars will be significantly more aggressive and more spicy, the lap times will be less than 3.30 min and will end at 3.20 min.

http://www.endurance-info.com/fr/ste...ture-possible/

[EffectiveSprinkles]

That's a big ignorant by Johansson there. These cars are not going to actually be GT cars but prototypes with silhouette bodies. Why do so many people get that consistently wrong?

[carbsmith]

It says "look like" not "be"

[EffectiveSprinkles]

Originally Posted by carbsmith

It says "look like" not "be"

Yes, and then he suggests homologating existing GT cars.

[TF110]

I don't follow his reasoning either. Some of the cars in GTE have carbon chassis and some have Aluminum and/or Steel. There's not much more a car like the M8 or Vette can do to drop their cars to something like 1000kg. Just having them with 800hp will increase top speed dramatically but it won't equal 3:20 laps at Le Mans. So his proposal is flawed. Sounds good for a new GT1 which I'm in favor of, but not as a top class. Prototypes and GTP's should be purpose built without limits on using a road car body/chassis.

[Akrapovic]

https://glickenhausracing.com/scg-00...Ivp4W6qnPc1PJM

Not sure if this is new or old news, but Big Jim SCG007 LMP1 concept.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

https://glickenhausracing.com/scg-00...Ivp4W6qnPc1PJM

Not sure if this is new or old news, but Big Jim SCG007 LMP1 concept.

I was just about to link to that article! It seems he is very serious and has a couple of cars ready to go. The article even says he has an entry...? If true then I hope it's not a Ginetta type of deal.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by hondafan37

Interesting reflections by Stefan Johansson:
"The 'Hypercars' will look like GT cars with bodywork, so why not use the current GTE / GTLM? Remove the existing restrictions in the BOP Let each constructor build the best car possible, which is exactly what will happen to the 'hypercar' category. Let's say that the legislator requires each manufacturer to approve a GT for this category with unrestricted engines.Most of the road cars of the current constructors develop approximately 800 horses.It would be relatively easy to get 800 horses to start with, give them 10% more aerodynamic support, wider tires and wider wheel arches, the cars will be significantly more aggressive and more spicy, the lap times will be less than 3.30 min and will end at 3.20 min.

http://www.endurance-info.com/fr/ste...ture-possible/

I know the whole point of the internet is to point out when people are wrong, but isn’t Johansson just saying that if they are going to look like exotic GT cars why not just start with GT as the basis rather than a prototype. I notice the article may well be translated?

So why not take some limitations off the GT cars. There are more of them to start with. This is similar to things that have been suggested round these parts.

It could be a suggestion rather than a misunderstanding.

[TF110]

More on Glickenhaus and his project for the new rules from dsc. GM engine seems to be the choice of engine with the kers unit to be decided. Interesting he says that he wants to make it able to covert to road use.

[CTD]

Originally Posted by TF110

More on Glickenhaus and his project for the new rules from dsc. GM engine seems to be the choice of engine with the kers unit to be decided. Interesting he says that he wants to make it able to covert to road use.

That's his thing

[EffectiveSprinkles]

Originally Posted by Adam43

I know the whole point of the internet is to point out when people are wrong, but isn’t Johansson just saying that if they are going to look like exotic GT cars why not just start with GT as the basis rather than a prototype. I notice the article may well be translated?

So why not take some limitations off the GT cars. There are more of them to start with. This is similar to things that have been suggested round these parts.

It could be a suggestion rather than a misunderstanding.

That's the point that we've made though. It's a suggestion based on a misunderstanding, as TF110 has already pointed out. The reason GT cars can't be used as base is because the class is going to have prototype bespoke chassis.

[Adam43]

The point I was making is that it may be that he understands perfectly that it is based on prototypes, but thinks there would have been a better way of doing it. He is suggesting that it ought to based on GT. i.e. disagreeing with the basis of the new rules.

That kind of makes sense to me as I am making the assumption that he understands what has been said by the ACO. The rest of the article could read like that too.

It may be either way, but I assume Johansson knows ACO have been on about.

[hondafan37]

Originally Posted by Adam43

I know the whole point of the internet is to point out when people are wrong, but isn’t Johansson just saying that if they are going to look like exotic GT cars why not just start with GT as the basis rather than a prototype. I notice the article may well be translated?

So why not take some limitations off the GT cars. There are more of them to start with. This is similar to things that have been suggested round these parts.

It could be a suggestion rather than a misunderstanding.

Originally Posted by Adam43

The point I was making is that it may be that he understands perfectly that it is based on prototypes, but thinks there would have been a better way of doing it. He is suggesting that it ought to based on GT. i.e. disagreeing with the basis of the new rules.

That kind of makes sense to me as I am making the assumption that he understands what has been said by the ACO. The rest of the article could read like that too.

It may be either way, but I assume Johansson knows ACO have been on about.

I understood the same thing as you and that's why I published that I thought the comments of Johansson were interesting.

[FormulaFox]

The problem with updating GTE, or even GT3, cars to this level is a simple matter of cost. Both are already quite expensive, and to up them to the sort of performance the top class will need could easily end up far more expensive than the ACO's goals - particularly once you consider the amount of work that will be needed to reinforce the unibodies of the cars to be sufficiently safe(none of them are built to withstand forces at the speeds being targeted).

[EffectiveSprinkles]

Originally Posted by Adam43

The point I was making is that it may be that he understands perfectly that it is based on prototypes, but thinks there would have been a better way of doing it. He is suggesting that it ought to based on GT. i.e. disagreeing with the basis of the new rules.

But that makes no sense, why would you spend all that money on trying to adapt such a car instead of building a new one? There would be no cost saving compared to the hypercar rules and because you're still stuck with the original car chassis and engine configuration some sort of BoP will still have to be applied.

[TF110]

I think it's a sort of good idea for a GT1 type class but not a top class for the wec/LM. Others have proposed the same thing, unrestricted GTE cars. But they are not cheap as is so I can imagine how much they would spend to get them to the sub 3:30 level. I think something like this would be like Super GT before the DTM style rules were created.

[GingerPixel]

Gickenhaus news is pretty big IMO. He's definitley brave stepping up to the top of endurance racing but its pretty exciting isn't it? It's the kind of project we've all dreamed about doing ourselves. It's a shame to see people on Facebook already rubbing their hands about how the whole thing is doomed to fail.

I guess this means the rules are accessible enough to not only work for massive manufacturers? I'd love to see Koenigseg step into the fray, along with some other big brains behind smaller operations.

[bentley speed 8]

I really wish Mr. Glickenhaus all the best with his future ventures. I am certainly excited after reading the news, and I want to avoid disappointment which is usually associated with this type of announcements

[andrewn7]

Part of me thinks nothing but positive things about the Glickenhaus announcement of interest in the Hypercars. Another part of me thinks it's all a bit underwhelming and really just reconfirms my own view that these new regs are practically dead before they even got started. Per the post above, I guess I'll just be pleasantly surprised if the car ever turns a wheel!

On balance I think it will take a lot more than this one (very speculative) announcement to make me believe that "good times are ahead"

[FormulaFox]

Originally Posted by andrewn7

Part of me thinks nothing but positive things about the Glickenhaus announcement of interest in the Hypercars. Another part of me thinks it's all a bit underwhelming and really just reconfirms my own view that these new regs are practically dead before they even got started.

All this proves is that the regs being discussed don't preclude privateers from joining up - something many people have been confused about to this point. Just because they're the only ones to commit to so far doesn't mean nobody else will.

Per the post above, I guess I'll just be pleasantly surprised if the car ever turns a wheel!

I see no reason at this point to assume it won't.

[TF110]

I thought ByKolles was the first to express it's desire to be a part of the new regs? Either way, that's two of them. Both are small but always put up a car. Kolles stayed around in lmp1 when every other privateer left and renewed for the super season. Glickenhaus has been running his own cars at VLN races for a few years now so I have no doubt he means business.

[FormulaFox]

Originally Posted by TF110

I thought ByKolles was the first to express it's desire to be a part of the new regs?

Unlike Glickenhaus, ByKolles still haven't confirmed a program. They're about as committed as McLaren seemed to be prior to the announcement. So right now, it's still only one.

[Juntos]

This hypercar concept is still a way too expensive for ByKolles gang pockets. They kept themselves active in LMP1 cause they were using a lot resources of the previous LMP2 project.

[TF110]

Not sure how it's too expensive for them. There's no hard line on the expense to make your own car. If anything they'll adapt the current chassis and fit some unique bodywork on it. They seem to be getting a lot of life from the current one. We'll see.