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Old 29 Jan 2019, 22:38 (Ref:3880523)   #1026
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Liberty have promised much, but haven't quite been what we were expecting them to be
Think their hands are tied a lot until the current F1 deal finishes with the teams...and doesn't help when none of the the teams seem to care either...they are just interested in short term money.
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Old 30 Jan 2019, 08:53 (Ref:3880589)   #1027
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Think their hands are tied a lot until the current F1 deal finishes with the teams...and doesn't help when none of the the teams seem to care either...they are just interested in short term money.
With respect, if they didn't know that when they bought it, they deserve to fail. I think the reality is, they really have no clue about what it should be and if the reports are correct neither do the manufacturers.
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Old 30 Jan 2019, 08:57 (Ref:3880592)   #1028
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Well they have now announced they will do a season launch prior to the Australian GP
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Old 30 Jan 2019, 09:14 (Ref:3880605)   #1029
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Wow!
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Old 30 Jan 2019, 10:24 (Ref:3880625)   #1030
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Quite an interesting article, with the Formula One Promoters' Association criticizing the direction Liberty is taking F1.

http://classic.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/141231
Thanks BJ.

Pringle seems to have Liberty figured out.

"If this continues, Formula 1 will be racing on second-rate circuits, if any at all," Pringle told The Daily Mail.

He added: "Everyone is disgruntled. Liberty's ideas are disjointed.

"We have all been compliant and quiet hitherto, but we have great concerns about the future health of the sport under the people who run it now."
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Old 30 Jan 2019, 17:27 (Ref:3880712)   #1031
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Second rate circuits - like Bahrain , Abu Dhabi,Shanghai and Sochi then ?
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Old 30 Jan 2019, 17:47 (Ref:3880715)   #1032
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Indeed I suspect people hoped they'd be swapped out pr dropped.
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Old 30 Jan 2019, 21:37 (Ref:3880756)   #1033
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Yeah, we need more places on the calendar that actually add to it. I wouldn’t mind shortening the calendar by a couple of GPs
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Old 30 Jan 2019, 23:17 (Ref:3880774)   #1034
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With respect, if they didn't know that when they bought it, they deserve to fail. I think the reality is, they really have no clue about what it should be and if the reports are correct neither do the manufacturers.
Of course they knew before they bought F1 - does not change the fact they can't make big changes until the current contract runs out.

The teams and manufacturers have never wanted to help push the sport on properly - they just look short term
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Old 30 Jan 2019, 23:26 (Ref:3880775)   #1035
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"We have all been compliant and quiet hitherto, but we have great concerns about the future health of the sport under the people who run it now." [/I]
People complained when Bernie Ecclestone was in charge and continue to complain now - nothing changes.
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Old 31 Jan 2019, 00:38 (Ref:3880782)   #1036
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People complained when Bernie Ecclestone was in charge and continue to complain now - nothing changes.
Bernie gets blamed for everything and credit for very little, many of the silly decisions that F1 has taken had very little to do with Bernie.

Foca, the FIA and the F1 Working Group need to bear responsibility and be held accountable for their parts in the mess.
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Old 6 Feb 2019, 11:59 (Ref:3882219)   #1037
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Bernie gets blamed for everything and credit for very little, many of the silly decisions that F1 has taken had very little to do with Bernie.

Foca, the FIA and the F1 Working Group need to bear responsibility and be held accountable for their parts in the mess.

I think BE sold at the end of the golden era for F1 financially and Liberty, conversely, bought in at the top. Agreed, I am making assumptions here, but I think Liberty.


  • Saw an already profitable business that they could monetise, add some razzamatazz and grow, probably quite easily.
  • They saw BE's effective one man band sales and marketing operation and reckoned some investment there could grow the commercial aspects as an untapped market.
  • BE had a combative relationship with teams and circuits, that they could bring more diplomacy into
  • Growth outside the traditional markets


The reality has probably been.
  • No new interest in F1 from car manufacturers
  • Difficulty in bringing in any new or meaningful sponsors
  • Not finding the queue for new F1 venues as long and willing as they thought
  • Teams are as difficult to agree anything direction with on regs or future as before
  • Resistance from teams to a greatly expanded calendar
  • The days of the beauty parade of open cheque broadcasters competing for F1 TV rights is over
  • Their over the top broadcasting product got off to a poor start and was more difficult to implement than thought
  • Opened a can of worms with the proposed business model offered to Miami, which as predicted has formed a queue of other circuits that have agreements coming up for renewal wondering why they can't be offered the same sort of deal - leading to rapid realisation that without circuits, you have NO business. The circuits association is now more organised and vocal and has recognised their strong position
  • Mexico government withdrawing funding of the GP
  • Today the Dutch government says that no state suport for a Dutch GP will be offered




Hence now we have alleged rumours of Liberty looking tosell F1 or a large equity in it, Red Bull have already denied a rumour that they might buy F1, apparently.


F1 will still make money as it has enough long termish deals from the lucrative BE deal days, but after that it will (IMO) get harder and harder to get big pay days and in the end FOM may end up having to be a joint promoter (and risk holder) at some of the events, maybe that will be the business model of the future.



Couple that with likely future increased regulation of sectors that are cash rich enought to sponsor F1 (betting/alcohol), massive change in the car market as manufacturers scale back production/model ranges and employees whilst they readjust to the new tech car market (which is why they are still in FE), general lack of interest in cars from the younger generation adding to ageing dempgraphich audience for F1.


That all looks a challenge to me..
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Old 6 Feb 2019, 15:55 (Ref:3882256)   #1038
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That all looks a challenge to me..
Agree very much with your entire post.

I will add that a curve that defines F1 will not be smooth, so it will have natural peaks and valleys, but at a smaller scale as to the larger curve that may span decades. So I agree we potentially are at or just beyond the peak, but there is room for Liberty to create their own small peak (or valley) depending upon how well they play their hand. So it's not a given it's nothing but downhill, but as you say... it is a challenge and likely much harder than Liberty expected.

Lastly, we will not know for sure until we are well beyond (many years?) the peak to say that what we thought was the peak was actually "the" peak. And the slope of the decline may be steep or gradual. So being on the back side of the peak may still allow for a viable product for some period of time. Especially if the decline is gradual.

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Old 6 Feb 2019, 16:02 (Ref:3882259)   #1039
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I agree with the above post too. It seems things aren’t all rosy, but it shouldn’t be that hard to find a solution, if they look in the right places. But a lot of people in F1 should have seen this coming
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Old 6 Feb 2019, 17:15 (Ref:3882264)   #1040
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I agree with the above post too. It seems things aren’t all rosy, but it shouldn’t be that hard to find a solution, if they look in the right places. But a lot of people in F1 should have seen this coming
So, forgive me, where are the 'right places'?
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Old 6 Feb 2019, 19:19 (Ref:3882275)   #1041
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im on the agreement train as well!

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in the end FOM may end up having to be a joint promoter (and risk holder) at some of the events, maybe that will be the business model of the future.
i would like to see this. more cooperation and all that.

my personal preference is to see racing at purpose built venues over street races (both as a live or on my couch spectator)...while this new type of business model was offered to create a street race in Miami, i would very much like to see similar deals offered to places like COTA.
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Old 6 Feb 2019, 20:35 (Ref:3882289)   #1042
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So, forgive me, where are the 'right places'?


They should look for simple solutions. That’s what F1 has often failed to do
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Old 6 Feb 2019, 20:39 (Ref:3882290)   #1043
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F1 missed the bus by not going electric.
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Old 7 Feb 2019, 00:31 (Ref:3882315)   #1044
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F1 missed the bus by not going electric.
Controversial! But probably right. F1, or Grand Prix racing, has led pretty much every revolution in motorsport since I don't know when:

Monocoque construction
Stressed member engines
Aerodynamic downforce (after streamlining)
Composite materials
Stupendofuels (toxic, highly dangerous and rightly banned but much wow)
Turbocharging
Energy recovery (boring, but F1 cars today are just stupidly efficient)
Carbon/Carbon brakes
A host of safety features
etc
etc

(and before anyone slams me, I'm happy to be shown big time motorsport that used all of the above before F1, unless it's drag racing and nitromethane because we all know about that!)

But F1 resolutely ignored 'alternative' energy sources, despite being quite good at 'alternative' things during the 50s thru 90s.

Standardisation is killing F1. It is not reducing costs, no matter what the FIA say. Loose the shackles and let the engineers have a play for a change, just like the rose-tinted days of yore, excepting the fact that they're a decade or so behind on electrics now.
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Old 7 Feb 2019, 10:02 (Ref:3882352)   #1045
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Well, I certainly wouldn't want to lose the sound of F1 engines, even if the turbo hybrid era is not as good as the V8/V10 era. So I hope it doesn't go electric
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Old 7 Feb 2019, 15:53 (Ref:3882434)   #1046
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i get the Liberty companies mixed up but one ones FOM/F1 and another owns a big chunk of FE...subsequently both are owned/controlled by John Malone. i would imagine this is intentional with one acting as a hedge against the possible collapse of the other so i would imagine one will eventually replace the other or a merger will happen.

i dont know if its possible but the ideal future for me would be a formula where ICE vs hybrids vs electrics could battle it out at the same time with the better technology winning out in the end.

but for that to happen the cars in FE need a lot more development.

im sure they will get there, but in the mean time im not so sure i would have liked to see that development happen within the sphere of F1.
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Old 8 Feb 2019, 03:12 (Ref:3882554)   #1047
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Liberty by their own admission bought F1 for one single reason, media content that they owned and controlled. Media companies world wide are paying any price they have to to obtain media they can televise or stream and Liberty the way I understand it is above all a company based on buying and selling media content. If they can't leverage the media content from F1 it will be interesting to see what happens. If you want to see a really stupid media buy look at what Murdoch via Foxtel paid for the rights to Supercars in Oz for a pitiful rise in viewers.
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Old 11 Feb 2019, 10:10 (Ref:3883161)   #1048
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Well, I certainly wouldn't want to lose the sound of F1 engines, even if the turbo hybrid era is not as good as the V8/V10 era. So I hope it doesn't go electric
There is a bit of crossover here from another thread with regard to electric power and I have already expressed my dislike of formula milk floats on the basis that the cars look slightly ridiculous even by comparison with the latest evolution of Indycars and I would reiterate that to me at least, the appearance and sound of the cars is paramount. Maybe I am being a bit of a luddite but I'm entitled to my opinion, I tried watching the second FE race but I'm afraid to me at least, the spectacle is appalling.
I recently caught up with highlights of last year's Indycar races on BT sport and compared with F1, the races were positively exciting to watch. The cars have more power than grip, a fundamental to any spectator and a real test of driving ability certainly with the variation between circuits switching between street circuits, ovals and conventional race tracks. Visually, Indycars solution with the alternative to the halo concept is far more acceptable and whilst the side pods introduced principally for safety in oval racing are a bit of an eyesore they are not as objectionable as those on the FE cars. Ok from a purist point of view the "push to pass" is pretty gimmicky but again no less so than the awful contrived DRS in F1. Quite aside from the financial aspects, as a long term race fan I am sure some lessons could be learnt from looking across the pond.
On the subject of F1 being exclusive to Sky, why is it at a time when we can view major motor racing events from across the world F1 remain so elitist? I follow many disciplines of motor racing both trackside and at home have done for many years because I am real fan. If you are dedicated, all the big events including the top flight sportscars, open wheel and just about any motor racing discipline is available for very little personal financial outlay certainly compared with other sports and I am mystified as to why at a time of falling audiences you would choose to put the pinnacle of motorsport behind a paywall. It maybe that BE negotiated the deal with Sky to have exclusive rights but surely Liberty should have had the foresight to rescind this arrangement by whatever means in the long term interests of F1.
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Old 11 Feb 2019, 13:03 (Ref:3883228)   #1049
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More power than grip is usually the way to get close racing
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Old 11 Feb 2019, 13:40 (Ref:3883243)   #1050
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There is a bit of crossover here from another thread with regard to electric power and I have already expressed my dislike of formula milk floats on the basis that the cars look slightly ridiculous even by comparison with the latest evolution of Indycars and I would reiterate that to me at least, the appearance and sound of the cars is paramount. Maybe I am being a bit of a luddite but I'm entitled to my opinion, I tried watching the second FE race but I'm afraid to me at least, the spectacle is appalling.
I recently caught up with highlights of last year's Indycar races on BT sport and compared with F1, the races were positively exciting to watch. The cars have more power than grip, a fundamental to any spectator and a real test of driving ability certainly with the variation between circuits switching between street circuits, ovals and conventional race tracks. Visually, Indycars solution with the alternative to the halo concept is far more acceptable and whilst the side pods introduced principally for safety in oval racing are a bit of an eyesore they are not as objectionable as those on the FE cars. Ok from a purist point of view the "push to pass" is pretty gimmicky but again no less so than the awful contrived DRS in F1. Quite aside from the financial aspects, as a long term race fan I am sure some lessons could be learnt from looking across the pond.
On the subject of F1 being exclusive to Sky, why is it at a time when we can view major motor racing events from across the world F1 remain so elitist? I follow many disciplines of motor racing both trackside and at home have done for many years because I am real fan. If you are dedicated, all the big events including the top flight sportscars, open wheel and just about any motor racing discipline is available for very little personal financial outlay certainly compared with other sports and I am mystified as to why at a time of falling audiences you would choose to put the pinnacle of motorsport behind a paywall. It maybe that BE negotiated the deal with Sky to have exclusive rights but surely Liberty should have had the foresight to rescind this arrangement by whatever means in the long term interests of F1.
With regards to some lessons that could be learnt from looking across the pond and F1 being exclusive to Sky, IndyCar have opened up race broadcasting. Previously the majority of races were shown on NBC Sports Network, with about four races free-to-air on ABC, including the Indy 500. IndyCar have a new deal with NBC, with eight of the 17 races free-to-air, which includes the 500.

Keeping the racing behind a pay wall, isn't going to attract the casual viewer, who potentially could become a fan and it's not good for sponsors and advertisers, as it limits the number of viewers they can target.
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