[WEC] LMP Future Regulations (was Le Mans EVO rules - now hypercar rules)

[carbsmith]

Originally Posted by Maelochs

Penske's LMP2 Porsches only won a couple times because nothing beat the torque and power advantages of the Audis. Check the ALMS results .... how many times did P2s win overall?

Penske won 8 races overall in 2007 alone.

Overall LMP2s won 13/23 races in 2007-2008, which actually sounds perfect on paper. In reality though it doesn't fit with the modern managed spectacle balancing ideas, because more or less one kind of car dominated the other at most tracks. You go to Laguna Seca and the R10s are on the 5th row.

[Adam43]

Something remain the same, as the moaning was as tedious then as it is now.

[Maelochs]

Originally Posted by carbsmith

Penske won 8 races overall in 2007 alone.

Overall LMP2s won 13/23 races in 2007-2008, which actually sounds perfect on paper. In reality though it doesn't fit with the modern managed spectacle balancing ideas, because more or less one kind of car dominated the other at most tracks. You go to Laguna Seca and the R10s are on the 5th row.

I stand corrected.

[Mike E]

Apparently they are going to decide something.

https://www.motorsport.com/wec/news/...mpression=true

[Bcarr6]

Originally Posted by Mike E

Apparently they are going to decide something.

https://www.motorsport.com/wec/news/...mpression=true

at this point it seems like DPi is going to end up on top.

Shame not to see the hypercar concept, possibly down to lack of clarity from the ACO.

[S griffin]

I think the DPI concept might be their best solution. Obviously the Hypercar idea is not dead, but looks like it might not happen. I guess there's too many hurdles involved there

[nobster]

Originally Posted by S griffin

I think the DPI concept might be their best solution. Obviously the Hypercar idea is not dead, but looks like it might not happen. I guess there's too many hurdles involved there

indeed, would be the easiest solution and would give the field at least some more different looking cars.

[chernaudi]

IMO, DPI (as is) isn't the best answer, but it seems better than the convoluted hypercar LMP1 stuff that the ACO have been trying to push. It also shows the dangers inherent in trying to get OEMs to sign on to a formula when the sanctioning body itself doesn't seem to know how they want to do things.

TMG don't want hypercars, AMR and others have yet to firmly commit, and DPI, though IMO it's flawed as far as the top prototype class for the WEC/LM, it's good value for money and a good starting point for the future regs.

Basically, if the ACO can take DPI, make it less spec (teams can buy or build whatever cars they want to the tech regs), have less BOP, and do stuff like open tire and open chassis and open engines, and a plug and play (though preferably not entirely spec) hybrid solution that doesn't provide the huge performance edge it does now, we might have something.

[Mike E]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

take DPI, make it less spec (teams can buy or build whatever cars they want to the tech regs), have less BOP, and do stuff like open tire and open chassis and open engines

This already exists - LMP1.
DPi needs to go on a diet to open a meaningful gap to LMP2.

[ApexTurtle]

Dreadful article by Motorsport.com. The ACO guy was there for the discussion about DPi 2.0. Nothing to do with the current incarnation.

[Mike E]

A reminder that the FIA/ACO/WEC have other customers to keep happy, not just manufacturers with their pick-and-mix regulation wish lists.

https://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/...nder-hypercar/

[Graham Goodwin]

Originally Posted by ApexTurtle

Dreadful article by Motorsport.com. The ACO guy was there for the discussion about DPi 2.0. Nothing to do with the current incarnation.

He was there because the current chassis are to an ACO regulated design

[ApexTurtle]

Originally Posted by Graham Goodwin

He was there because the current chassis are to an ACO regulated design

And the next one will most likely be too

[hondafan37]

DSC wonders if: Will Hypercar Survive?

http://www.dailysportscar.com/2019/0...r-survive.html

[ApexTurtle]

That was much better, a great overview of the current situation without any obvious bias or leading questions. Great work as always Mr. Goodwin!

Personally I hope the rules revert back to what was presented in December. Toyota will continue and then we'll just have to wait for the 2021 season for the other entrants.

[MaskedRacer]

I think there can be BoP between P1-non hybrid and DPI. There was a couple seconds a lap between then at Sebring. Granted the DPI's are FAR more reliable over the length of an endurance race.

[canaglia]

always been favorable to a dpi-like class; also because, is that different private lmp1 class by now?
dpi's are lmp2 based prototypes powered mainly by street/gt3 engine; the best private lmp1's, smp and rebellion are lmp2 based prototypes powerd by bespoke engines.... that's it.

[blankfile]

In my opinion the class should never have moved to a from the street car look.

Maybe I'm just silly but I just love pure prototypes like they are now with massive downforce.

How i'd make ppl interested is rather simple. Introduce cost capping like in lmp2. In fact I'd even BOP the entire engine's to the gibson V8 found in the lmp2 cars. A great car could be built within the exact ruleset as lmp2 minus the engine solution.

That way we'd have freedom in chassis with performance balanced engine solutions. Hybrid is an option but this gives a weight penalty, more weight for more hp output of the hybrid.

Knowing what the Ginetta lmp1 costs am I unreasonable to think that a must sell for a rolling chassis minus engine/hybrid can be around 2 mln euro's is possible. So privateers could even buy factory designed chassis for the same cost cap as others.

Hell dpi even fits within this hah.

[Mike E]

Meanwhile, in the world of hydrogen power, https://www.theengineer.co.uk/hydrogen-kubas-binding/

[deggis]

https://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/...hypercar-regs/

Story from yesterday with some comments from Aston, BMW/MTEK and Rebellion.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by canaglia

always been favorable to a dpi-like class; also because, is that different private lmp1 class by now?
dpi's are lmp2 based prototypes powered mainly by street/gt3 engine; the best private lmp1's, smp and rebellion are lmp2 based prototypes powerd by bespoke engines.... that's it.

Only the (Oreca) Rebellion is 'based' on an lmp2. The others are bespoke to the class.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by TF110

Only the (Oreca) Rebellion is 'based' on an lmp2. The others are bespoke to the class.

And even then, the 07 took onboard a lot of learnings from the R-One. So if we're tracing roots back, it's only fair to say the LMP2 that the R13 is based off also started as an LMP1.

[ApexTurtle]

Just because a car has the same or a very similar chassis doesn't make them the same in the end. The difference between the Oreca LMP2 and the R13 is huge.

[chernaudi]

That may be, but the R-One/05/07/R13 do share the same basic tub design. A lot of the differences is that the aero regs in LMP1 are a lot freer than in LMP2. Also, LMP1 privateers can develop things on that end pretty much to their heart's content. LMP2 is basically frozen without ACO approval for changes.

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by TF110

Only the (Oreca) Rebellion is 'based' on an lmp2. The others are bespoke to the class.

BR1 is based on the dallara lmp2, actually can't be considered a fresh new design at all.

Following your statement, you should consider mazda dpi a bespoke prototype too since is based on a revised multimatic chassis.