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12 Dec 2019, 05:15 (Ref:3946257) | #351 | |
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12 Dec 2019, 05:34 (Ref:3946261) | #352 | ||
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Quote:
The opportunity will be there to reinvigorate the series with more relevancy, more manufacturers, etc. |
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12 Dec 2019, 06:28 (Ref:3946263) | #353 | ||
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Quote:
Why not the Supercars adopting the same idea but for 6 cylinder turbo, rear wheel drives including BMW M3, Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifolgio, Mercedes C43 AMG and so on? Finally, the spaceframes ('silhouettes') can be banished in favour of cars that retain the architecture (suspension layout etc) of the actual production car, as works well in TCR. |
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12 Dec 2019, 18:28 (Ref:3946361) | #354 | ||
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Quote:
This is post-GFC Australia. Good luck finding manufacturers who will support/develop a car that can only be raced here. |
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13 Dec 2019, 05:59 (Ref:3946440) | #355 | ||
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Quote:
Does anyone care if all brands use the same engine / power unit? |
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13 Dec 2019, 06:07 (Ref:3946441) | #356 | ||
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Quote:
It would great to see Australian GT finally become a professional class. Shell V Power Ferraris BJR Audi R8 Walkinshaw BMW M6 It would be a sight to behold! Double Bathurst endurance races (12 hr + 1000) would be ace! I certainly see GT3 as the best bet to attract manufacturer interest from Audi, BMW and Mercedes to the Supercars series. After all they are already involved in the Bathurst 12 hour. Balance of performance however might be even more controversial than the existing technical parity... |
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13 Dec 2019, 06:15 (Ref:3946442) | #357 | |
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If you were a manufacturer being asked to join a series and was told that the biggest stipulation is that you are not allowed to use your own engine/driveline what would you say. My response would consist of a single finger held vertically.
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13 Dec 2019, 06:28 (Ref:3946444) | #358 | ||
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Quote:
1) The cost to develop an engine 2) The cost to develop an aerokit. 3) The cost to develop a competitive front suspension. The BTCC elimates all these costs, and has a great variety of manufacturers: most of which are privately developed and are merrily powered by the TOCA category engine. If Mercedes Benz, Ford, Audi, VW, Alfa Romeo, MG, Toyota and Infiniti have no objections to using a generic engine in the BTCC, why would they have objections in Supercars? AFAIK BMW and Honda (and Subaru who have quit) are the only ones using manufacturer engines. |
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13 Dec 2019, 08:22 (Ref:3946463) | #359 | ||
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The problem is manufacturer interest is only in SELLING cars, not FUNDING cars.
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13 Dec 2019, 08:56 (Ref:3946477) | #360 | ||
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Quote:
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13 Dec 2019, 09:16 (Ref:3946478) | #361 | ||
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Quote:
Because of those points and others, the BTCC is very affordable and every manufacturer (and even privateer) feels they have a chance to win. Whereas Supercars is unreasonably expensive, for the return, and new manufacturers feel they have little chance to win. Furthermore, BTCC uses vehicles that are market relevant whereas Supercars does not. |
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14 Dec 2019, 00:13 (Ref:3946632) | #362 | |
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And a big point you did not raise is the choice of front or rear drive is optional in the BTCC.
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14 Dec 2019, 09:58 (Ref:3946653) | #363 | ||
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14 Dec 2019, 10:18 (Ref:3946655) | #364 | |
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14 Dec 2019, 10:34 (Ref:3946659) | #365 | |||
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Quote:
Strangely though, NGTC was originally designed to be FWD only, so in theory should not have seen RWD entries.... |
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17 Dec 2019, 00:53 (Ref:3947067) | #366 | ||
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 317
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The only other alternative is four-cylinder front-wheel-drive TCR or NGTC cars, which have half to two-thirds the horsepower of current supercars. And we already know those likely won't get very far because TCR Australia is only being moderately successful and the first attempt at smaller touring cars in Australia fell flat on its face despite racing at the Mountain. Would it not be better to try to make something better?
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17 Dec 2019, 02:07 (Ref:3947078) | #367 | ||
Racer
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 198
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[QUOTE=Casper;3946477]What is the difference between SC and the BTCC that makes SC's so unattractive to new entries QUOTE]
On this specific note, I think that Supercars is missing something that many other championships have, which is the lure of success. A manufacturer sees value in racing if they can be competitive and promote the brand. Not spend squillions to make up the numbers and look bad (hello Mercedes and for the most part, Nissan). I found this in an article about McLaren's potential entry into the WEC and thought it related exactly the current situation with Supercars: Quote:
(source for quote: https://racer.com/2019/12/14/mclaren...r-convergence/) |
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17 Dec 2019, 10:34 (Ref:3947122) | #368 | ||
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Quote:
Apart from the Mustang, large engine performance cars are exclusive to the prestige segment. It's *possible* to attract Alfa Romeo, Audi, BMW, Jaguar and Mercedes Benz to the Supercars series. The question though is HOW to do it? (As an aside the latter four are all represented in Formula E. Volvo would also be interested in an electric series. In such a case is a hybrid or electric touring car formula the key? Unfortunately high battery weight and low range remain a problem for electric touring car racing. ) Having sufficient battery capacity on board to supply 450kW is rather a problem for electric racing cars. |
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17 Dec 2019, 11:58 (Ref:3947136) | #369 | |
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You don't need a peak of anywhere near that as the power under the curve is a flat line not a curved one as IC engines have. Power under the curve is not a good name for the EV powered vehicle but I guess you get what I mean.
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18 Dec 2019, 01:40 (Ref:3947268) | #370 | |||
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Posts: 2,540
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Quote:
Electric racing has to be short now, or swap cars! Not quite Bathurst 1000 ready. |
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18 Dec 2019, 02:43 (Ref:3947272) | #371 | |
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You would suggest wrongly by a long way. An EV has peak torque at zero RPM and falls off at the top, directly the opposite to an IC engine, well all IC's fall off at the top as well so suffer at both ends. The biggest gotcha is the reduced output from the batteries if cooling is not adequate and battery temps start to rise caused by power drain. I hope the possibility of hybrid is never mentioned as it will be a financial disaster. Either stay with IC motors or go totally electric. Doing the latter would make a lot of sense, they could have a roller skate complete with driveline and controls built and the teams out a body on it. The costs would plummet and it would fill the manic idea of parity to a T.
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21 Dec 2019, 13:15 (Ref:3947878) | #372 | |
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Join Date: Nov 2011
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Not quite, because currently Supercars run a spec chassis, and the engines are all in the window for power, it is the different bodies that cause all the parity problems.
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24 Dec 2019, 02:12 (Ref:3948321) | #373 | ||
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__________________
The Jerk Store rang... |
24 Dec 2019, 10:43 (Ref:3948359) | #374 | ||
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If you could stop posting that self promoting blowhard it would be good. Anybody who wants to can subscribe to his bullshit channel.
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24 Dec 2019, 18:08 (Ref:3948436) | #375 | ||
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Or you can just ignore posts that trigger you. That also would be good.
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__________________
The Jerk Store rang... |
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