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Old 25 Mar 2020, 11:33 (Ref:3966741)   #241
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Why not get behind the R&D to make EVs better (for the owner, society as a whole and the environment) rather than attack the justification for them being introduced in greater numbers?
Bingo, exactly.

I would propose an answer to your question of why people won't do that, but will for the sake of civility keep it to myself!
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Old 25 Mar 2020, 19:15 (Ref:3966833)   #242
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One has to consider whether investment in infrastructure (and the CO2 output from that effort) required to support the new all electric world 24/7/356 is affordable and justifiable. And delivers fitness for purpose.


So first we may need to consider future purpose. The way of life that satisfies the expectations of future generations. By the end of 2020 such expectations may be different to 2019. But for now assume they are not.
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Old 26 Mar 2020, 10:39 (Ref:3966934)   #243
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Land Rover's mild-hybrid tech spells end for V8 diesel Range Rover

'Land Rover is set to introduce new mild-hybrid diesel engines to the Range Rover and Range Rover Sport in the coming months, effectively spelling an end to the V8 diesel, Autocar has learned.
It is understood that a 296bhp 3.0-litre MHEV unit, badged D300, will be offered on HSE, HSE Dynamic and Autobiography Dynamic trims [...]

A new, more powerful version of that same engine putting out 345bhp (badged D350) will be available in higher-end trims such as HST.
The data reveals that the new unit puts out 516lb ft of torque, giving a 0-62mph time of 6.5sec and a top speed of 140mph in the Range Rover Sport. It also claims 35.3mpg and emits 210g/km of CO2. These figures are notably improved on the V8 diesel. '
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Old 26 Mar 2020, 12:17 (Ref:3966956)   #244
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https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...uilt-with-ford

Deutsche Post are shutting down their Streetscooter factory .
They took over the business in 2014 to produce electric vans for their German postal service , DHL & Swiss postal delivery as well as a load ordered by Amazon .
Tens of thousands built but they are now closing the business down . No doubt the greens will blame everything else , but the simple fact is the vehicles were not up to the job . Frequently , [ especially in cold weather ] , the vehicles could not get back to the depot at nights .
Because the product is not a success , nobody wants to buy the electric vehicle business , so Deutsche Post / DHL is shutting it all down .
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Old 26 Mar 2020, 13:03 (Ref:3966966)   #245
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Originally Posted by Tel 911S View Post
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...uilt-with-ford

Deutsche Post are shutting down their Streetscooter factory .
They took over the business in 2014 to produce electric vans for their German postal service , DHL & Swiss postal delivery as well as a load ordered by Amazon .
Tens of thousands built but they are now closing the business down . No doubt the greens will blame everything else , but the simple fact is the vehicles were not up to the job . Frequently , [ especially in cold weather ] , the vehicles could not get back to the depot at nights .
Because the product is not a success , nobody wants to buy the electric vehicle business , so Deutsche Post / DHL is shutting it all down .
Why will the greens be blaming something - and why make it an attack on 'greens' - whoever they might be?

A product is launched, does not turn out to be as successful as hoped, and production ends. The same thing happens with ICE-powered vehicles all the time, this is no different.
The technology is not the issue here - as clarified in one sentence in the article - 'From 2021, it will buy electric vans from other manufacturers.'



Less than a month later - 'Volkswagen Amarok discontinued'

VW are shutting down their Amarok production line.
They retooled their factory in 2010 to produce the ICE-powered pickup for their European market customers.
Hundreds of thousands built but they are now closing the production line down. No doubt the sceptics will blame everything else, but the simple fact is the vehicles are no longer fit for purpose.
Because the product is no longer a success, nobody wants to buy the vehicle in sufficient numbers, so VW is shutting it all down to build electric vans instead.



I appreciate there is a lot more to both articles - but you can see how circumstances can be twisted to fit your narrative if you approach issues with a blinkered approach.
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Old 26 Mar 2020, 13:08 (Ref:3966969)   #246
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GORDON STREETER is going for a new world record!GORDON STREETER is going for a new world record!GORDON STREETER is going for a new world record!GORDON STREETER is going for a new world record!GORDON STREETER is going for a new world record!GORDON STREETER is going for a new world record!
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Originally Posted by crmalcolm View Post


'Land Rover is set to introduce new mild-hybrid diesel engines to the Range Rover and Range Rover Sport in the coming months, effectively spelling an end to the V8 diesel, Autocar has learned.
It is understood that a 296bhp 3.0-litre MHEV unit, badged D300, will be offered on HSE, HSE Dynamic and Autobiography Dynamic trims [...]

A new, more powerful version of that same engine putting out 345bhp (badged D350) will be available in higher-end trims such as HST.
The data reveals that the new unit puts out 516lb ft of torque, giving a 0-62mph time of 6.5sec and a top speed of 140mph in the Range Rover Sport. It also claims 35.3mpg and emits 210g/km of CO2. These figures are notably improved on the V8 diesel. '
In all fairness does "anyone" really need a vehicle like that ?
Why I say that is I drive around a fair bit here and in Spain and there are speed restrictions on all roads, Most of the UK roads are overcrowded and I normally always get to my destination in the same time as everyone else !

Last edited by GORDON STREETER; 26 Mar 2020 at 13:14.
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Old 26 Mar 2020, 13:14 (Ref:3966972)   #247
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Originally Posted by GORDON STREETER View Post
In all fairness does "anyone" really need a vehicle like that ?
Probably not - but then how many vehicles on the road are designed around 'need'?

What it does show is that the EV/hybrid technology is continually advancing, and makes it more viable than pure ICE in a lot of circumstances currently.
The vehicle (and its characteristics) might not be a necessity, but it does fulfil a desire.

More performance, less pollution and cheaper to run compared to it's predecessor - what's not to like?
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Old 26 Mar 2020, 13:23 (Ref:3966977)   #248
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GORDON STREETER is going for a new world record!GORDON STREETER is going for a new world record!GORDON STREETER is going for a new world record!GORDON STREETER is going for a new world record!GORDON STREETER is going for a new world record!GORDON STREETER is going for a new world record!
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Probably not - but then how many vehicles on the road are designed around 'need'?

What it does show is that the EV/hybrid technology is continually advancing, and makes it more viable than pure ICE in a lot of circumstances currently.
The vehicle (and its characteristics) might not be a necessity, but it does fulfil a desire.

More performance, less pollution and cheaper to run compared to it's predecessor - what's not to like?
I see your point, however I can get to the same destination for 70=80k cheaper
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Old 26 Mar 2020, 13:28 (Ref:3966978)   #249
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I see your point, however I can get to the same destination for 70=80k cheaper
Yeah - who ever needed one of these:




**about 150,000 people apparently**
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Old 26 Mar 2020, 15:41 (Ref:3967015)   #250
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Originally Posted by Tel 911S View Post
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...uilt-with-ford

Deutsche Post are shutting down their Streetscooter factory .
They took over the business in 2014 to produce electric vans for their German postal service , DHL & Swiss postal delivery as well as a load ordered by Amazon .
Tens of thousands built but they are now closing the business down . No doubt the greens will blame everything else , but the simple fact is the vehicles were not up to the job . Frequently , [ especially in cold weather ] , the vehicles could not get back to the depot at nights .
Because the product is not a success , nobody wants to buy the electric vehicle business , so Deutsche Post / DHL is shutting it all down .
Not sure where you get the information that "frequently in cold weather the vehicles could not get back to the depot at night" from.

Especially seeing as they never got out of the test-phase here in Germany.

DHL/Post bought this start-up, put up a factory in Düren to construct them and built about 10.000, many of which were sold to smaller companies in Europe and in Japan .

They did not however manage to put them into use themselves.

In 2019 they discontinued the project for financial reasons after investing hundreds of million Euros , stating that they weren't equipped to be an automaker and that competition such as the E-Vito and E-Sprinter from Daimler which appeared since the development of the Streetscooter were more effective, being larger capacity to carry goods amongst the reasons.

In fact they sold the company back to the people who first developed it, who with all the newfound R&D now see more potential for the project.

This all from the local german newspapers which you can read and translate for yourself.

Even the article you've quoted yourself offers much of this information but seems you are intent on your own "interpretation".
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Old 26 Mar 2020, 16:54 (Ref:3967034)   #251
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Not sure where you get the information that "frequently in cold weather the vehicles could not get back to the depot at night" from.

Especially seeing as they never got out of the test-phase here in Germany.

DHL/Post bought this start-up, put up a factory in Düren to construct them and built about 10.000, many of which were sold to smaller companies in Europe and in Japan .

They did not however manage to put them into use themselves.

In 2019 they discontinued the project for financial reasons after investing hundreds of million Euros , stating that they weren't equipped to be an automaker and that competition such as the E-Vito and E-Sprinter from Daimler which appeared since the development of the Streetscooter were more effective, being larger capacity to carry goods amongst the reasons.

In fact they sold the company back to the people who first developed it, who with all the newfound R&D now see more potential for the project.

This all from the local german newspapers which you can read and translate for yourself.

Even the article you've quoted yourself offers much of this information but seems you are intent on your own "interpretation".

So you are trying to say that Deutsche Post/ DHL never used any of the 10,000 electric vehicles that they have themselves ?

And I did see one German media story that blamed the Bankruptcy/ shutdown of Streetscooter on Coronavirus .
So twist that one into something that makes sense .
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Old 26 Mar 2020, 19:55 (Ref:3967074)   #252
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So you are trying to say that Deutsche Post/ DHL never used any of the 10,000 electric vehicles that they have themselves ?
.
Whether they EVER used ANY one of these vehicles I do not know for fact so I wouldn't swear on it.

There is no evidence I can find that they did, but you can search for yourself.

What I do know for fact is that they were not rolled out on any widespread basis in the country for DHL/Post usage, if indeed at all.

What I also know for fact is they did not purchase completed vehicles for immediate use on the streets as you seem to misunderstand/misinterpret.

They did purchase the startup company which designed these vehicles, then further developed and ultimately produced some 10.000 many of which were then sold to other entities before they abandoned the project.

Whether you choose to believe reportage on the subject to be truth or a covert leftist conspiracy entirely up to you!
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Old 27 Mar 2020, 08:27 (Ref:3967147)   #253
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Whether they EVER used ANY one of these vehicles I do not know for fact so I wouldn't swear on it.

There is no evidence I can find that they did, but you can search for yourself.

What I do know for fact is that they were not rolled out on any widespread basis in the country for DHL/Post usage, if indeed at all.

What I also know for fact is they did not purchase completed vehicles for immediate use on the streets as you seem to misunderstand/misinterpret.

They did purchase the startup company which designed these vehicles, then further developed and ultimately produced some 10.000 many of which were then sold to other entities before they abandoned the project.

Whether you choose to believe reportage on the subject to be truth or a covert leftist conspiracy entirely up to you!
According to Wiki , [ I know not always reliable ] , Deutsche post had 9000 in use by 2018.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StreetScooter

So who knows where you get your " Facts " from .
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Old 27 Mar 2020, 10:18 (Ref:3967174)   #254
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Originally Posted by Tel 911S View Post
According to Wiki , [ I know not always reliable ] , Deutsche post had 9000 in use by 2018.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StreetScooter

So who knows where you get your " Facts " from .
Interesting source you provide.

This has clarified that the EVs were in use by Deutsche Post/DHL, and from the 9k they were running in 2018, this has risen 10k in 2019, alongside a fleet of 12k e-bikes and e-trikes.

Not bad for a product that you describe as 'not up to the job'.

Understanding that ll business decisions will be publicised with a certain amount of 'packaging' for shareholder benefits - it is a reach to assume a correlation between a courier business selling a vehicle production arm and a vehicle being a failure.
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Old 27 Mar 2020, 13:15 (Ref:3967205)   #255
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According to Wiki , [ I know not always reliable ] , Deutsche post had 9000 in use by 2018.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StreetScooter

So who knows where you get your " Facts " from .
Well my "facts" come from articles in Die Welt, Die Zeit, Aachener Nachrichten etc, as well as the very Wiki entry you just also quoted.

And you're absolutely right, I read the whole entry before... except I missed the picture on the side with the little caption.

And I also find it interesting indeed what information it leads to.

If you follow the footnote on the picture yes you're absolutely right, it leads to a 2019 interview from Focus magazine with Deutsche Post's CEO Frank Appell who said that they had some 9000 Streetscooters currently on the streets and others were being sold to third parties.

And as I said, since that time they have sold the entire operation back to the company which founded it.

The coronavirus issues you ridiculed earlier seems to have something to do with this very recent sale of the company.

I'm not getting a clear picture from the press what is going on there honestly, but it is a financial issue between those parties and little to do with the project itself.

So we're both right isn't that lovely?

Last edited by smokystove; 27 Mar 2020 at 13:24. Reason: additional information
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