Is Vettel's career over?

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by LW97

Yes, why?

Just wondering, based on some of the critique that has been made of Pancake Master's work.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

He'd be certifiable if he went to Ferrari. I don't think there's much hatred and certainly not a lot of 'propaganda'. Unfortunately Sebastien has shown himself to be fallible in recent times. But I think we've been here before.

Vettel reminds me of Damon Hill. When everything is just right, it somehow multiplies his skill level. Vettel suited the V8s, and he had an amazing car. People do like to say "oh it's just the car", but Webber was far from incompetent and couldn't touch him.

He doesn't suit the V6s, and it allowed drivers like Ricciardo to rattle him. Not dissimilar to when F1 went to grooved tyres and thinner cars and Damon was off the boil. Managed the odd good result (usually in the wet, when the grooved tyres weren't a thing), but his driving style wasn't adapatable.

Vettel when things align ups his game to a level others can't match. Vettel when things aren't quite right, he becomes above average and that's about it.

[LW97]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Just wondering, based on some of the critique that has been made of Pancake Master's work.

OK, that explains a lot. On YT however my name no longer is 'Pancake Master'.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by LW97

Yeah, we probably would have the 2010-13 Seb again.

Er? Really?

I don't see it personally. Right now, even if you put him in the best car, it depends on the competition.

[S griffin]

Vettel will be an enigma. There’s no doubt he’s a great, as his four titles prove, but even so, I would hesitate to put him among the all time greats. He made mistakes in his early days, but then after he won his title, in the best car he seemed to be unstoppable. Then Ricciardo came along and the car didn’t suit Vettel, so he struggled. He redeemed himself going to Ferrari initially, but then after a season or two the mistakes crept in and he’s thrown away any hope of challenging Merc for the title. Just imagine what Alonso would have done in those three seasons with Ferrari

[Knowlesy]

A great driver with a narrow window of performance.

If he were a Mercedes F1 car he would be labelled a diva perhaps.

[S griffin]

Indeed, Mark Webber said when things don’t go well for Seb, he’s never seen anyone so childish

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Indeed, Mark Webber said when things don’t go well for Seb, he’s never seen anyone so childish

Marks problem was he was cut from the same cloth as Seb, but without the skill. Doesn't like team orders, happy to disobey them, had a good whine at every opportunity.

The only difference between the two of them was sometimes Seb got the job done.

[LW97]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

A great driver with a narrow window of performance.

If he were a Mercedes F1 car he would be labelled a diva perhaps.

Nevertheless, if he was to be Lewis' teammate, I would say Lewis had to worry.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by LW97

Nevertheless, if he was to be Lewis' teammate, I would say Lewis had to worry.

It would be career suicide for Seb, IMO.

[Skam85]

Originally Posted by peebee2

He was class. Seen the highlights once on TV and knew more about F1 than people who’d worked in F1 for years.

He never really forgave Vettel for not signing an autograph, or running over his dog, or something..

[Skam85]

Originally Posted by S griffin

The problem is if Hamilton leaves, who would take his place? With Max and Charles locked in to their teams, they won’t get a seat. I guess Russell could, but he would need this season to get going so he could get more experience. Then again, his talent would probably shine through anyway.

Would Merc be able to get the best out of Seb though? Hmm...

If Hamilton leaves they have the perfect scenario of evaluating their two best options in this year's Renault

[LW97]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

It would be career suicide for Seb, IMO.

Not for Lewis? Unlike Lewis, Seb has already scored four titles in a row and he scored his 4th one at age 26 (Lewis was 32 when he made it to his fourth one, just like Schumi). And we don't know what would've happened, had Rosberg not retired after his title, perhaps Lewis would still be a three times champion.

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by LW97

Not for Lewis? Unlike Lewis, Seb has already scored four titles in a row and he scored his 4th one at age 26

With four titles in a row, why on earth did Vettel run off to a different team than the all-conquering Red Bull!?

It's hardly a way to show loyalty is it!?

[LW97]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

With four titles in a row, why on earth did Vettel run off to a different team than the all-conquering Red Bull!?

It's hardly a way to show loyalty is it!?

Well, Lewis switched from the then-best Mercedes team to the now-best Mercedes team. Both have been working closely together until McLaren moved to Honda (and later Renault) at the end of 2014 and will likely be as close when they return to Mercedes in 2021.

And yes, it was because of Ricciardo. I would say Ricciardo made a mistake moving to Renault, and I already know why Mercedes won't give him a seat...

[Casper]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Vettel will be an enigma. There’s no doubt he’s a great, as his four titles prove, but even so, I would hesitate to put him among the all time greats. He made mistakes in his early days, but then after he won his title, in the best car he seemed to be unstoppable. Then Ricciardo came along and the car didn’t suit Vettel, so he struggled. He redeemed himself going to Ferrari initially, but then after a season or two the mistakes crept in and he’s thrown away any hope of challenging Merc for the title. Just imagine what Alonso would have done in those three seasons with Ferrari

Alonso might be a good driver but this shows why his career choices are total rubbish, he didn't stick around and have patience. Anyway why pick on Alonso, Hamilton would be at least his equal and his career choices definitely do not suck so to speak. This period of time has greatly decreased Alonso's chances of returning to F1 for which a lot of people will be very grateful. BTW for full disclosure I am president of the "I hate Alonso club"

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by LW97

Not for Lewis? Unlike Lewis, Seb has already scored four titles in a row and he scored his 4th one at age 26 (Lewis was 32 when he made it to his fourth one, just like Schumi). And we don't know what would've happened, had Rosberg not retired after his title, perhaps Lewis would still be a three times champion.

No, without a shred of a doubt, not for Lewis. True that Rosberg could have pushed him, but he didn't have the stomach for it so cut and ran (not that I blame him at all for that). He knew that Mercedes was Lewis' team and Seb would know that too. It just isn't going to happen anyway. Why would Mercedes even think of taking Vettel after the most fallible period of his F1 career?

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

Why would Mercedes even think of taking Vettel after the most fallible period of his F1 career?

To please the ABH fraternity?

[LW97]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

No, without a shred of a doubt, not for Lewis. True that Rosberg could have pushed him, but he didn't have the stomach for it so cut and ran (not that I blame him at all for that). He knew that Mercedes was Lewis' team and Seb would know that too. It just isn't going to happen anyway. Why would Mercedes even think of taking Vettel after the most fallible period of his F1 career?

Because they are German. I like Bottas tho, but he's clearly worse than Vettel and Hamilton. But Wolff of course wants a #2 next to Hamilton.

[Aysedasi]

Of course he does. So would I. But I don't see Wolff having any interest in Vettel right now, just because he's German....

[S griffin]

Originally Posted by Skam85

If Hamilton leaves they have the perfect scenario of evaluating their two best options in this year's Renault

Of course, Ricciardo still has the talent and only just recently turned 30. And Ocon I’m sure Merc would love to give a try

[Aysedasi]

But neither of them are German......

[crmalcolm]

Andrew Benson article yesterday suggests that Vettel's career is not over, and that both Hamilton and Vettel will stay where they are for a while:

Hamilton:
"There is no dream of another team. I am with my dream team. There's not a thing in my way, as I'm not trying to move. I'm with the people who have cared from day one. [...] the best team".

Vettel:
"Whatever the [Ferrari] deal will be like, it is whatever I and the team will be comfortable with. In terms of duration, normally the contracts I had in the past were all a three-year deal."

[S griffin]

Let's see if Vettel comes back stronger if and when this season gets started. He's said recently that he misses racing and would be happy with just a 10 race calendar

[chillibowl]

lets say for example the racing starts up before a cure...how many millionaire athletes risk coming back?

SV has won titles and its very unlikely that Ferrari will prioritize a title bid for him over a bid for his younger team mate. and then there will be the press and fandom hounding you incessantly and questioning your ability. is it worth the drama?

obviously this question is contingent on how long thing go on for, but would you come back if you were him?