THE F1 COVID THREAD: Will GP be cancelled?

[S griffin]

Let’s just wait and see what the government says, there is still some hope we can see racing. I just wish F1 stays with some of the better circuits. It will make all this more worth it

[ScotsBrutesFan]

As much as I want to see F1 back on track, I'm still struggling to see how such travel without quarantine could be justified.

I get the argument on business essential travel, but you could also the say that if the person was able to travel to carry out work, could they then work from home for 2 weeks (quarantine period) on their return?

Answer, some probably could especially given the experience and infrastructure that many companies have built up over the "lockdown", but there are also some that work very hands on, and quarantine would mean not working for 2 weeks and the problems that cause, for the individual, the company, their industry and the economy.

It's that balance which I think everyone including the Government is having to try and find. But for the moment safety/public health is tipping the scales towards Quarantine for all.

[S griffin]

It will struggle if it doesn’t get back on track come July as is planned. Of course the way the world is changing the 14 day quarantine might be gone come then.

It’s hard enough though when we are missing GPs like Monaco. I’d hate to lose Silverstone too, but it’s very hard to get to different venues with travel restrictions in place.

It’s circuits like Spa and Monaco that make F1 what it is and I’d hate for F1 to miss those places and only go to some lesser ones. It just wouldn’t justify coming back if it was only to the bland circuits.

Let’s wait to hear what the government says, but the way it’s looking now, we should maybe not try to get too excited. Just take it one week at a time and see how things improve

[Casper]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Let’s just wait and see what the government says, there is still some hope we can see racing. I just wish F1 stays with some of the better circuits. It will make all this more worth it

The countries like Australia & NZ have proven that retrictions such as quarantine and minimising entry work and if the AGP was slotted to run this year there is no way it would get permission to enter the country. Wishing F1 to return and cross borders is not a good idea because inevitably when one of the group contract the virus it will cause a total shutdown and gaurantee that the F1 return is put back even further. It would be counter productive in the extreme if this happened and it will happen no ifs or buts.

[S griffin]

That is one stumbling block, no doubt the Australian GP authorities will not want a repeat of what happened in March. So it sadly looks unlikely that we will see them return to Oz this year. As for the rest of the calendar we have to see what it's like come July. But interestingly the FIA has said F1 races can go ahead even if 10 people catch the virus (but probably no more than that). So it seems they are ready to deal with the situation if anything happens

[Armco Bender]

But interestingly the FIA has said F1 races can go ahead even if 10 people catch the virus

Worrying about $$$ regardless of the body count,not a good look for F1..

[midgetman]

Time for a bit of perspective here. For most people CV19 is an irritant not a death sentence. I'm not downplaying it, but that comment is somewhat sensationalist.

The F1 bubble can definitely create a sterile situation where any disease can be contained. Coronavirus is not like Sarin, where just sniffing the air is fatal, basically you have to handle someone's spit to catch it, and even then as long as you don't put it in your mouth there's no problem.

As for chasing the $$$, it's not as mercenary as it sounds. With millions newly unemployed across the world, something that keeps highly specialised skills in work is important. There's probably 10,000 jobs in the team factories alone, then the supply chains, the TV support and so on. It's bad enough that low paid temporary jobs in circuit infrastructure are lost due to the closed doors policy.

With no racing that's potentially thousands more households torn apart by unemployment, thousands more benefit claims, thousands more little villages where the local shop loses a customer which could tip the balance. (OK my own bit of sensationalism but you get the idea)

So yes along the way Liberty make lots of $$$, but this is an industry and with no sales for 2020 its demise is probable.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

[bella]

looking further down the line, we could have another f1 personnel exodus at the end of the year. if they do decide to go ahead without an exemption and either stay away for months or try not to return to base or something for 2 weeks every few races (because i bet you can’t leave the country again during self quarantine) then it’s not going to fly. there’s a lot of people with families who won’t settle for not going home for a month or more at a time. it’s just not worth it.

[Casper]

Originally Posted by S griffin

That is one stumbling block, no doubt the Australian GP authorities will not want a repeat of what happened in March. So it sadly looks unlikely that we will see them return to Oz this year. As for the rest of the calendar we have to see what it's like come July. But interestingly the FIA has said F1 races can go ahead even if 10 people catch the virus (but probably no more than that). So it seems they are ready to deal with the situation if anything happens

The FIA won't be doing the talking if only one person gets it, the government of the country they are in will be doing the talking and the kicking of bums so what the FIA say and what will happen will be two different things.

[S griffin]

That’s a fair point, it could be completely out of F1’s control if someone gets it. Let’s just hope that nothing of the sort happens for the sake of the sport, but it can only take one wrong move for someone to be infected

[RWill2073]

Originally Posted by bella

it's insanity, they're so desperate to get the economy going that they make international travel incredibly difficult?

ffs.

Careful, you're starting to sound like me, lol. You've come to the dark side on seeing the "insanity" of some of this, and how crippling these lockdowns are becoming.

Now, take it a step further and start observing how those telling you and your family that they can't carry out their work and will have to suffer through this are carrying on their lives. I posted earlier when the hypocrisy hit me, when my gym that I go to most days was shut down, but the supreme court justice wasn't having that, and demanded their gym remain open. Here's a few more:

"Gov. J.B. Pritzker for the first time Friday acknowledged his wife and daughter were in Florida before Illinois’ statewide stay-at-home order took effect in March and just recently returned to Chicago.

He said he was being “very private and very reserved” about his family “because there are threats to my safety and to their safety.

“You have seen that there are people that stand outside the Thompson Center and stand outside the Capitol in Springfield, holding, I mean, hateful signs that reference me personally and that suggest, if not say, but suggest the potential for violence,” he said.

On April 29, Pritzker testily responded to a question about a Patch.com report that his wife and family had gone to Florida amid the governor’s stay-at-home orders.

“My official duties have nothing to do with my family. So, I’m not going to answer that question. It's inappropriate and I find it reprehensible,” he said of stories about his family...."

Just a few questions I'd love to be asked of him:

Why does his family not have to follow his orders to his subjects?

Do the actions of his family indicate that with their extra information that they are privy to, indicate that maybe this isn't something that warrants the restrictions being ordered out?

If a local business owner (or your family, for example) defies the restrictions to open up to put food on their family's plate, when confronted with officers or other officials, can they use the governor's line about not answering their questions, that it is a private family matter? You know, since providing for your family is a family matter...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.chi...outputType=amp

Or, this one:

"Received the Michelle Obama recorded call this morning encouraging me to stay home, and I wanted to cry,” tweeted D.C. native Alex Kennedy....

The Obamas took some flak from conservative bellowers who reported that the former president played a socially isolated game of golf at an exclusive Virginia country club last weekend..."

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.was...outputType=amp

The message encouraged residents to stay at home except for essential trips to grocery stores or for prescriptions. No mention of essential golf outings, of course.

Again, you're right, it's utter insanity. It is also interesting that those "in the know" seem to be living their normal lives. What could that mean? That they matter more than the rest? Or that it isn't nearly as dangerous to be out as they are making it seem?

Ok, so my rhetoric ir language has been harsher, but it seems you're starting to come around!

Originally Posted by midgetman

Time for a bit of perspective here. For most people CV19 is an irritant not a death sentence. I'm not downplaying it, but that comment is somewhat sensationalist.

The F1 bubble can definitely create a sterile situation where any disease can be contained. Coronavirus is not like Sarin, where just sniffing the air is fatal, basically you have to handle someone's spit to catch it, and even then as long as you don't put it in your mouth there's no problem.

As for chasing the $$$, it's not as mercenary as it sounds. With millions newly unemployed across the world, something that keeps highly specialised skills in work is important. There's probably 10,000 jobs in the team factories alone, then the supply chains, the TV support and so on. It's bad enough that low paid temporary jobs in circuit infrastructure are lost due to the closed doors policy.

With no racing that's potentially thousands more households torn apart by unemployment, thousands more benefit claims, thousands more little villages where the local shop loses a customer which could tip the balance. (OK my own bit of sensationalism but you get the idea)

So yes along the way Liberty make lots of $$$, but this is an industry and with no sales for 2020 its demise is probable.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

Careful, when I said this I was told to go through my contacts and pick which 5-7 out of 100 I'd pick to die. Beyond the sensationalist nature of that comment, it was actually wrong. I'd have to have 200 contacts to find 1 to pick out, since with antibody testing the true death rate is closer to .5%. And beyond that, if I look at my contacts and find my grandmom and a few others and implore them to stay home and stay safe, the rest can pretty safely go on about their lives.

All of the unemployment has a good chance to cause more destruction and cost more lives than the virus itself. Again, my frustration with it leads me to finding the bs in the people handing down these destructive policies, but the concerns I have had aren't much different from the ones you two have posted about in these posts.

[midgetman]

>>>>>>>>>>Careful, when I said this I was told to go through my contacts and pick which 5-7 out of 100 I'd pick to die. Beyond the sensationalist nature of that comment, it was actually wrong. I'd have to have 200 contacts to find 1 to pick out, since with antibody testing the true death rate is closer to .5%. And beyond that, if I look at my contacts and find my grandmom and a few others and implore them to stay home and stay safe, the rest can pretty safely go on about their lives.

To be fair it was me who said that. And it was because you advocated abolishing shut down, or so I understood. I think lockdown *has* saved the world, so I don't agree with your view of shutting some people away and the rest getting on with their lives.

Also I was working on UK figures don't forget, where we have such an abysmal "test, tack and trace" system that we've no idea how many people have been infected nor how many have recovered.

Still, neither of us are virologists, epydemiologists or experts of any kind so either iof us can have a view as informed as each other. Neither of us know. Either, neither or both of us could be right.

[Adam43]

The answer for us is somewhere in between! The only answers we are pretty certain are wrong are the extremes.

[Peter Mallett]

We've got pretty good evidence though. Sweden appears to have the worst per capita death rate and it didn't lock anyone down.

Originally Posted by Guardian 23 May 2020

No one, however, would have predicted this news item from last week: “Covid-19 deaths in Sweden were the highest in Europe per capita in a rolling seven-day average between 12 and 19 May.” It confirmed that Sweden’s state epidemiologist Anders Tegnell’s “mitigation” strategy of allowing shops, restaurants, gyms, schools and workplaces to remain open was a deadly folly. It does not even seem to have produced herd immunity. Just 7.3% of Stockholm’s inhabitants had developed Covid-19 antibodies by the end of April.

So, lock-downs would appear to work, even in a limited way. As to travel, if we were still seeing death rates that we saw two weeks ago, would we be thinking that the travel restrictions should be lifted?

I'm currently not working although there are folks in the far east who could use my assistance and which I'd be delighted to provide. Sadly, right now I can't and thus my ability to earn money is zero. I had planned to retire but the crash has knocked that on the head. Hey ho. I don't understand the 8th June thing but assume it's because that is when other European countries will relax their borders. The UK is at least two weeks behind.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by RWill2073

Careful, you're starting to sound like me, lol. You've come to the dark side on seeing the "insanity" of some of this, and how crippling these lockdowns are becoming.

Crippling? Yes. Insane? Debatable, but likely not when viewed in its entirety vs. cherry picking news items. You continue to be quick to discount, but provide little with respect to alternatives. Given you enjoy being a critic in the bleachers, how would you run things? Please note, you can't play just to your particular base.

Originally Posted by RWill2073

Again, my frustration with it leads me to finding the bs in the people handing down these destructive policies, but the concerns I have had aren't much different from the ones you two have posted about in these posts.

I also find your examples interesting. Strong bias in one political direction with respect to examples of hypocrisy, while conveniently ignoring the other examples that span the political spectrum. Quite a divisive narritive there!

Overall, I would say its showing it's quite easy to lock things down as that is a quick ramping up of things. But its proving to be much harder to ratchet things down in a gradual way. It's sort of like trying to make someone partially pregnant. Plenty of those who point out you either are, or are not. Nothing less than either pregnant or not will satisfy the masses. And when done someone is still going to be unhappy. Right now everyone is unhappy as we are either not loose enough or too tight with respect to Covid19 restrictions.

Originally Posted by Adam43

The answer for us is somewhere in between! The only answers we are pretty certain are wrong are the extremes.

Yes!

Richard

[Greem]

The constant use and misuse of statistics in respect of infection & death rates simultaneously amuses, intrigues and irritates the hell out of me.

On one hand there's the "look, the rates are really low, it was all bluster, end lockdown now I need a haircut" brigade, and on another there's the "any rate greater than zero is appalling, keep everything closed forever" brigade.

It's a bit like the Y2K crisis: people (like me) worked their butts off for a couple of years to make sure nothing went catastrophically wrong, then when nothing went catastrophically wrong as a result we were told it was all bluster.

Personally, I want to get back to talking to people (or choosing to ignore them!) regularly in situation which aren't standing on the doorstep shouting to the neighbours, but I want to do so in a way which isn't risky. Not too much to ask, is it?

Now, back to your scheduled F1 programming....

[RWill2073]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

Crippling? Yes. Insane? Debatable, but likely not when viewed in its entirety vs. cherry picking news items. You continue to be quick to discount, but provide little with respect to alternatives. Given you enjoy being a critic in the bleachers, how would you run things? Please note, you can't play just to your particular base.

Probably a lot like Sweden. They've had a bad week lately, but they have treated their citizens like adults and are equipping themselves to handle a second wave (of which nobody talked about until long after we were all locked down initially, btw) through hard immunity. Also, in the beginning, I was okay with temporary shutdowns. I could see an argument for or against a short lockdown plus no big events allowed for a short period of time. But "flattening the curve" became a moving goalpost that is perpetually moving more and more toward "not until a vaccine is found" which may never come. That is insanity.

I also find your examples interesting. Strong bias in one political direction with respect to examples of hypocrisy, while conveniently ignoring the other examples that span the political spectrum. Quite a divisive narritive there!

By all means, show me the examples I'm missing. I would like to know all of them, so I know who not to vote for, or listen to in the future. But, is it hypocrisy to not abide by lockdowns when you are advocating for or are actively opening your state up? Like if the georgia or florida governor was out getting haircuts when they were locked down, they're just as hypocritical. If they're doing so now, not so much.

Overall, I would say its showing it's quite easy to lock things down as that is a quick ramping up of things. But its proving to be much harder to ratchet things down in a gradual way. It's sort of like trying to make someone partially pregnant. Plenty of those who point out you either are, or are not. Nothing less than either pregnant or not will satisfy the masses. And when done someone is still going to be unhappy. Right now everyone is unhappy as we are either not loose enough or too tight with respect to Covid19 restrictions.



Yes!

Yes, I agree, the answer is somewhere in the middle.

Richard

.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by RWill2073

Probably a lot like Sweden. They've had a bad week lately, but they have treated their citizens like adults and are equipping themselves to handle a second wave (of which nobody talked about until long after we were all locked down initially, btw) through hard immunity. Also, in the beginning, I was okay with temporary shutdowns. I could see an argument for or against a short lockdown plus no big events allowed for a short period of time. But "flattening the curve" became a moving goalpost that is perpetually moving more and more toward "not until a vaccine is found" which may never come. That is insanity.

You are living in an alternative reality in which it was just "flatten the curve" and there was nobody looking beyond the first peak. It may be your perspective, but I will continue to call BS on revisionists history like you post above.

Kudos to Sweden for trying a different path. It not all positive either as you admit.

Originally Posted by RWill2073

By all means, show me the examples I'm missing. I would like to know all of them, so I know who not to vote for, or listen to in the future.

I am trying to avoid dragging this down into polarized US politics. So I will speak to one example and that is our president. While some are enacting more or less restrictions, they are broadly following federal recommendations. Our President refuses to follow those (set by his administration) himself to set a positive example. You call out Obama for playing golf last week, yet Trump is out playing this weekend (frankly I have no problems with people playing golf right now as long as they do it responsibly). He visits a factory in Michigan and does not wear a mask when local regulations require him to do so. Probably because he his hyper sensitive of his image and doesn't want to be photographed with one on (get over yourself dude).

Regardless, there are plenty of examples everywhere across both parties. Consider broadening where you get your news from.

Richard

[RWill2073]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

You are living in an alternative reality in which it was just "flatten the curve" and there was nobody looking beyond the first peak. It may be your perspective, but I will continue to call BS on revisionists history like you post above.

Kudos to Sweden for trying a different path. It not all positive either as you admit.


I am trying to avoid dragging this down into polarized US politics. So I will speak to one example and that is our president. While some are enacting more or less restrictions, they are broadly following federal recommendations. Our President refuses to follow those (set by his administration) himself to set a positive example. You call out Obama for playing golf last week, yet Trump is out playing this weekend (frankly I have no problems with people playing golf right now as long as they do it responsibly). He visits a factory in Michigan and does not wear a mask when local regulations require him to do so. Probably because he his hyper sensitive of his image and doesn't want to be photographed with one on (get over yourself dude).

Regardless, there are plenty of examples everywhere across both parties. Consider broadening where you get your news from.

Richard

Last I'll say about this to not drag it further: the president hasn't enforced that, just recommended. The local regulation in michigan was done by a governor who routinely gives press conferences.... unmasked. She made hers a rule/law. I have no problem with them recommending and leaving it up to people to choose then deciding not to. Ok, if you recommend it, it would be better to follow it, but it's a different thing to mandate something and then not follow it. Also, again, he is privy to a lot more information on this than we are. So what does it say that someone in the at risk age group isn't taking the highest precautions recommended? I'm looking at all of their actions, not the bs they say.

And I also have zero issue with playing golf right now. But don't make it illegal for others at the same time.

[bella]

Originally Posted by RWill2073

Careful, you're starting to sound like me, lol. You've come to the dark side on seeing the "insanity" of some of this, and how crippling these lockdowns are becoming.

Now, take it a step further and start observing how those telling you and your family that they can't carry out their work and will have to suffer through this are carrying on their lives. I posted earlier when the hypocrisy hit me, when my gym that I go to most days was shut down, but the supreme court justice wasn't having that, and demanded their gym remain open.

nah, i've been banging the "we need to get back to work ASAP" but also "we need to stay under house arrest when asked because it's the right thing to do for everybody" drums for a long time.

you can hold two views about this at once because it isn't a black and white situation like other posters have said. i really, REALLY don't want people to die, because it's taking out vulnerable people who already live difficult lives. if they survive, it's making life even harder for them. really horrible situation.

but i also believe that we need to get back to work. if that means we, as a whole, have to barrier nurse our way through our normal lives for a bit then that's what we have to do.

i've said this elsewhere, but we're all going to have to suck it up and have a pretty unenjoyable time at motorsport and at work in general for a while. we all need money to live and we don't give enough of what we earn to the government for them to go around paying all our bills for a year.

generations before us in europe survived two devastating world wars in 30 years. they lost their families, their lives, their homes, and were persecuted for their beliefs. all we have to do is wear a bloody mask and try not to socialise with people outside our working household/cell/whatever for a while. get a grip.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by bella

nah, i've been banging the "we need to get back to work ASAP" but also "we need to stay under house arrest when asked because it's the right thing to do for everybody" drums for a long time.

you can hold two views about this at once because it isn't a black and white situation like other posters have said. i really, REALLY don't want people to die, because it's taking out vulnerable people who already live difficult lives. if they survive, it's making life even harder for them. really horrible situation.

but i also believe that we need to get back to work. if that means we, as a whole, have to barrier nurse our way through our normal lives for a bit then that's what we have to do.

i've said this elsewhere, but we're all going to have to suck it up and have a pretty unenjoyable time at motorsport and at work in general for a while. we all need money to live and we don't give enough of what we earn to the government for them to go around paying all our bills for a year.

generations before us in europe survived two devastating world wars in 30 years. they lost their families, their lives, their homes, and were persecuted for their beliefs. all we have to do is wear a bloody mask and try not to socialise with people outside our working household/cell/whatever for a while. get a grip.

I would say that sums up the situation perfectly.

[bella]

sentences i never thought i’d say, number eight:

i agree with this nascar driver

https://www.autosport.com/nascar/new...-than-shopping

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by bella

it's insanity, they're so desperate to get the economy going that they make international travel incredibly difficult?

ffs.

Because you can import international cases which is bad.

[S griffin]

Indeed, they have an obligation to take necessary precautions when people are travelling to a different country at this time, even if it is a pain in the backside to have to go through all this

[chavez]

Originally Posted by Armco Bender

Worrying about $$$ regardless of the body count,not a good look for F1..

Didn't seem to harm Formula One between 1950 and 1994.