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Old 24 Dec 2020, 00:23 (Ref:4024908)   #46
bloxsidgemotorsport
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Possibly maybe and whatever should fix the whole problem..... I don't think. Best of luck with that!
Yet its just been confirmed recently that the Camaro will still be in production till atleast 2026 now.

And GMSV is highly likely to bring it out to Australia at a lower price than here before. Why they bringing it back? Partially to do with the fact its going to be the marquee's car in Supercars i.e fans will want to buy it.

That's at least 5 years worth of life left in Supercars.
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Old 24 Dec 2020, 03:31 (Ref:4024920)   #47
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Good news but what happens after that? Remember change needs lead time so at about the three year mark from now a decision has to be made. Relying on these two models can't go on forever and five years is a very short span of time. In effect they can stick their head in the sand and ignore the problem for perhaps 3 years but it will still be there. The car market is changing but no one is listening.

This won't affect what cars are produced in the US will it.

https://www.gov.ca.gov/2020/09/23/go...limate-change/
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Old 24 Dec 2020, 03:35 (Ref:4024921)   #48
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Good news but what happens after that? Remember change needs lead time so at about the three year mark from now a decision has to be made. Relying on these two models can't go on forever and five years is a very short span of time. In effect they can stick their head in the sand and ignore the problem for perhaps 3 years but it will still be there. The car market is changing but no one is listening.

This won't affect what cars are produced in the US will it.

https://www.gov.ca.gov/2020/09/23/go...limate-change/
Just out of interest what are you proposing they do? It needs to affordable, cost effective and interests teams/ drivers. But most importantly something mainstream fans will watch or go to.
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Old 24 Dec 2020, 04:08 (Ref:4024924)   #49
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Good news but what happens after that? Remember change needs lead time so at about the three year mark from now a decision has to be made. Relying on these two models can't go on forever and five years is a very short span of time. In effect they can stick their head in the sand and ignore the problem for perhaps 3 years but it will still be there. The car market is changing but no one is listening.

This won't affect what cars are produced in the US will it.

https://www.gov.ca.gov/2020/09/23/go...limate-change/
What happens after that? Well, that's three years away that a decision HAS to be made and hopefully one will be made and communicated before then but it doesn't need to be now. As we start to see new models coming out (reportedly hybrids as well as electric only) over the next couple of years, I think that potential paths are likely to become more obvious.
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Old 25 Dec 2020, 00:38 (Ref:4025146)   #50
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What happens after that? Well, that's three years away that a decision HAS to be made and hopefully one will be made and communicated before then but it doesn't need to be now. As we start to see new models coming out (reportedly hybrids as well as electric only) over the next couple of years, I think that potential paths are likely to become more obvious.
Supercars can bandaid for a while and in some ways already have been given the Mustang v Camaro rivalry that we're heading for. GT3-style cars will probably still be around once that's done and I imagine that'll be an easy if not especially visionary step to make. And besides, I can't exactly see Australia leading the charge in banning the combustion engine.

The problem is really what you want long term. One day the ICE won't be in any road car and the question is where you want to be when that happens. Racing without them is a strange thought, I agree, but I think that's where we're heading outside of the niche and short tracks.
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Old 25 Dec 2020, 07:51 (Ref:4025158)   #51
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Just out of interest what are you proposing they do? It needs to affordable, cost effective and interests teams/ drivers. But most importantly something mainstream fans will watch or go to.

I have no idea at all. It seems SC and motorsport in general is between a rock and a hard place to me with no appealing options. Open wheel racing which does not rely on basing cars on production models seems to be in the box seat.
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Old 25 Dec 2020, 08:01 (Ref:4025160)   #52
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The problem is really what you want long term. One day the ICE won't be in any road car and the question is where you want to be when that happens. Racing without them is a strange thought, I agree, but I think that's where we're heading outside of the niche and short tracks.
The ICE is the least of the problems, the platform of the large 4 door sedan is just about an extinct species and that is where the problem is. The 2 door American style coupe is most probably not far behind it as the domestic market is turning to the SUV and "trucks"/pickup/utes style of vehicle. Let's say that the Mustang/Camaro last another 6 years in production, that is only four years short of the predicted ban on NEW ICE cars being banned in the market place in some markets so it would seem to be fairly predictable that all new models into the 2030 break point will be entering the market earlier than that and no new platforms that were traditionally used will appear from the late 2020's. I am not talking about the ICE motor only the platform but of course the power train will be changed from those models as well.
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Old 25 Dec 2020, 08:06 (Ref:4025161)   #53
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What happens after that? Well, that's three years away that a decision HAS to be made and hopefully one will be made and communicated before then but it doesn't need to be now. As we start to see new models coming out (reportedly hybrids as well as electric only) over the next couple of years, I think that potential paths are likely to become more obvious.
That is the classic head in the sand stuff that has gotten the series into the cul de sac it is in. I am not bright enough to see a way out but someone needs to start thinking about this stuff now because three years time is the latest and starting the thinking process now is not too early.
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Old 26 Dec 2020, 05:17 (Ref:4025239)   #54
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The problem is really what you want long term. One day the ICE won't be in any road car and the question is where you want to be when that happens. Racing without them is a strange thought, I agree, but I think that's where we're heading outside of the niche and short tracks.
Sorry but ICE "not being in any road car" is a very long way off at this point. For sure, ICE ONLY propulsion for new cars is due to be outlawed in 10 year's time in some locations but hybrids are still allowed at that stage, plus of course all the ICE / hybrid vehicles already on the road.

My personal best guess is that we'll end up with different fuel types that will enable ICE use for a very long time, alongside hybrid, EV and Hydrogen.

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That is the classic head in the sand stuff that has gotten the series into the cul de sac it is in. I am not bright enough to see a way out but someone needs to start thinking about this stuff now because three years time is the latest and starting the thinking process now is not too early.
Supercars was quoted some time ago re the possibility of hybrid power, along the lines of the NASCAR model (V8 ICE plus hybrid). No doubt it is something that is being looked at (what the power units will be) but the point I was making is that none of us on here will be making those decisions and as the current platforms have a number of years of market relevance, it is too early to be demanding answers on the plan beyond that or to be predicting the end of the world as we know it.
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Old 26 Dec 2020, 10:57 (Ref:4025254)   #55
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Post WW11 Touring car racing in Australia originated with many of the cars being ex Taxis.
Cheapest vehicle you could get hold of to modify and usually not as old and rusted as other cars reaching their economic life span.
Even before the Geoghan and Myer Holdens there were Ford V8s and even more early 40s Dodge 6's.
Can someone look up the Mt Druitt records for a 42 Dodge with the then tell tale ex-cab paint job of black with orange guards.
They filled the need for cheap and frequently spectacular racing.
Tongue in cheek may I suggest we sart a series for ex-cab Prius.
Ticks all the boxes from a cost and tradition basis

I realise that it's a bit of an ego trip to quote yourself but having given it a bit of thought a series for ex-cab Prius is not quite as stupid an idea as it seem.
It taps into the market of people who want to race something cheap and think they can use their technical talents to make their (Postie bike, VW based race car, Gemini, Excel, HQ, old Commodore, add name here) go faster round a circuit than the bloke down the street.
More particularly it brings into play a whole new bunch of tech heads who not only fancy themselves with ICEs but have an interest in the software and hardware involved KERS, battery usage in mixed power trains starting at a basic level.
The next wave of Australian race engineers.
They could be the basis for developing the next generation of motor racing.

By the way the Mt Druitt 1942 Dodge ex cab belonged to Don Gibson. Not sure if he was related to later Gibson motor sport stars.
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Old 28 Dec 2020, 02:19 (Ref:4025472)   #56
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Sorry but ICE "not being in any road car" is a very long way off at this point. For sure, ICE ONLY propulsion for new cars is due to be outlawed in 10 year's time in some locations but hybrids are still allowed at that stage, plus of course all the ICE / hybrid vehicles already on the road.

My personal best guess is that we'll end up with different fuel types that will enable ICE use for a very long time, alongside hybrid, EV and Hydrogen.


Supercars was quoted some time ago re the possibility of hybrid power, along the lines of the NASCAR model (V8 ICE plus hybrid). No doubt it is something that is being looked at (what the power units will be) but the point I was making is that none of us on here will be making those decisions and as the current platforms have a number of years of market relevance, it is too early to be demanding answers on the plan beyond that or to be predicting the end of the world as we know it.
No one knows what the universal power unit will be but unless there is a break through in the alternatives batteries for all their problems have got the rail run to the finish line, at least for now. I suppose the next five years will sort that out, I can't see the manufacturers who are now investing huge amounts of capital for no return are going to abandon BEV's and re-structure all over again. They have made their bet and they are going to ride it out at least until they have made the ROI on battery power. SC going hybrid will cause additional expense and added complexity for no demonstrable result other than a feel good one. I too suspect that any change to electric is a long way off for very good and well known reasons. It should be all in for either one and not some half baked hybrid that effectively proves nothing. The problem is that SC have publicly demonstrated their inability or refusal to acknowledge changes that have taken place and the problems that are going to arise and will change things forever.

I have to ask you for your assessment of when the powers that be in SC have to put their thinking caps on and come up with answer to how they see things beyond the present cars now being used. The power train is a secondary issue that is already defined, sooner or later it will change for batteries, to dream about Hydrogen etc is at this stage wishful thinking.
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Old 28 Dec 2020, 22:34 (Ref:4025562)   #57
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No one knows what the universal power unit will be but unless there is a break through in the alternatives batteries for all their problems have got the rail run to the finish line, at least for now. I suppose the next five years will sort that out, I can't see the manufacturers who are now investing huge amounts of capital for no return are going to abandon BEV's and re-structure all over again.

I have to ask you for your assessment of when the powers that be in SC have to put their thinking caps on and come up with answer to how they see things beyond the present cars now being used. The power train is a secondary issue that is already defined, sooner or later it will change for batteries, to dream about Hydrogen etc is at this stage wishful thinking.
Manufacturers aren't only going down the BEV route, there are new hybrid systems in development as well and I agree that right now we don't know what the mix of power units and ideal outcome will look like - but it'll become clearer over the next few years.

That leads to the question on timeline for SC to work out their direction. Personally I think that the power train is likely to be the key point of decision - with the rest flowing from that. There are quite a few manufacturers still building and planning to keep building mid/large coupes, hatches and sedans but no doubt ideally the manufacturer preference would be to have similar powertrains in race cars to what they are selling.

SC has already talked about hybrids and from various statements made, is actively looking now at the future of the cars and what they'd look like etc - so it sounds like it is well and truly being looked at but I suspect that for the same reasons mentioned above, SC won't be able to make any final decisions until directions in the car industry overall become clearer.
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Old 30 Dec 2020, 06:45 (Ref:4025761)   #58
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The title of this thread is where is Motor Racing Headed, and it is understandable that it has, like every thread become focused on Supercars and it's offshoots.
I would suggest that the long term future of people racing one another in some type of vehicle is much more likely to emerge from the grass roots than from corporate, boardroom, or even professional race teams.
Finding somewhere to let off a bit of steam legally, and preferably somewhere that you can demonstrate your prowess at doing so, will always be the core of the sport.
This discussion should be about how we can ensure that the enthusiasm for doing so, and the willingness to do it in a safe and organised maner is kept alive as the motor industry as we know it goes through generational change.
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Old 30 Dec 2020, 14:30 (Ref:4025831)   #59
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I think BEV's will be a boon for club racing, not yet but in years to come. No oily bits in the driveline to cost thousands to maintain, it will be easy to ensure everyone has the same power output which is truly linear and the huge maintenance costs go out the window. If the ICE + Gearbox + Diff is taken away things can only get better.
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Old 31 Dec 2020, 03:59 (Ref:4025971)   #60
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I think BEV's will be a boon for club racing, not yet but in years to come. No oily bits in the driveline to cost thousands to maintain, it will be easy to ensure everyone has the same power output which is truly linear and the huge maintenance costs go out the window. If the ICE + Gearbox + Diff is taken away things can only get better.
what unique safety issues are present with BEV's when they crash? This is something never talked about yet.
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