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Old 28 Dec 2020, 17:23 (Ref:4025526)   #7751
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If there are any token based or time based restrictions on development (like in F1) what should stop teams to use "outsourcing" in CFD and other restricted areas? If it's all about money and you can control the spendings, then governing body should just impose a sum which can be operated during the season and some safety regulations (like standard safety cell). Everything else should be totally upon teams to decide. That could force brains to work. Maybe they would have invented new cost efficient manufacturing processes. It would be more useful for the economy than EV political crap. And we could have talked about tech, and not that politically correct nonsense which is in line with media frightened to death by loosing contacts with Marketing Departments if any word of them would be noted as tiny bit of anti-advertising.
As far as we know development is locked for 5 years upon final homologation which has to happen before you race.
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Old 28 Dec 2020, 17:26 (Ref:4025527)   #7752
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As far as we know development is locked for 5 years upon final homologation which has to happen before you race.
So no "Evo" update packages to rectify any issues like in the current LMP2?
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Old 28 Dec 2020, 17:34 (Ref:4025528)   #7753
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So no "Evo" update packages to rectify any issues like in the current LMP2?
Our understand is no.
They will look to BOP to accomplish "equality".
Interesting times...
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Old 28 Dec 2020, 21:11 (Ref:4025557)   #7754
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Our understand is no.
They will look to BOP to accomplish "equality".
Interesting times...

I always thought that BoP is for loosers. It's awful that there's no choice for the team. I'd rather cheer for an average team in a free competition rather than for a top one in a randomized bopped show.

****

What's the point in watching the same cars for 5 years? And there's no point in chatting about this type of racing. You know all the "x", "y" and "z" in the equation, all the strategies are known before, as even the tyres are common. What to chat about? It's like having a great conversation about episode 10567 of another soap opera. There's no need in magazines, as there will be nothing to read for those who are interested in tech - there're plenty of papers for stars, shows and hits already. All these happiness about standardisation is just killing me. Can't you see it's a dead-end? It's appalling that nobody says anything about this situation, almost everybody stand at least speechless, and somebody are just jumping out of own trousers in joy.

Where in the rules is it said that racing have to be a "close one"? Racing is not about fans. It's about racing. And I'll swap the whole WEC season stuff with all the media around it just for one, the most boring, comment-less race from 70s.
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Old 29 Dec 2020, 09:22 (Ref:4025588)   #7755
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I always thought that BoP is for loosers. It's awful that there's no choice for the team. I'd rather cheer for an average team in a free competition rather than for a top one in a randomized bopped show.

****

What's the point in watching the same cars for 5 years? And there's no point in chatting about this type of racing. You know all the "x", "y" and "z" in the equation, all the strategies are known before, as even the tyres are common. What to chat about? It's like having a great conversation about episode 10567 of another soap opera. There's no need in magazines, as there will be nothing to read for those who are interested in tech - there're plenty of papers for stars, shows and hits already. All these happiness about standardisation is just killing me. Can't you see it's a dead-end? It's appalling that nobody says anything about this situation, almost everybody stand at least speechless, and somebody are just jumping out of own trousers in joy.

Where in the rules is it said that racing have to be a "close one"? Racing is not about fans. It's about racing. And I'll swap the whole WEC season stuff with all the media around it just for one, the most boring, comment-less race from 70s.

Agreed! It will now become more about the Teams/Drivers and not the cars (like in F1)
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Old 29 Dec 2020, 10:00 (Ref:4025591)   #7756
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Agreed! It will now become more about the Teams/Drivers and not the cars (like in F1)
Despite all the soap-opera around teams and drivers, F1 is actually the last major series where building a better mousetrap still pays off.
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Old 29 Dec 2020, 10:11 (Ref:4025592)   #7757
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Despite all the soap-opera around teams and drivers, F1 is actually the last major series where building a better mousetrap still pays off.

It had always payed off. Its just not where their (the series) marketing emphasis is placed.
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Old 29 Dec 2020, 10:21 (Ref:4025593)   #7758
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It had always payed off. Its just not where their (the series) marketing emphasis is placed.
Right, but by now F1 has become basically the only major series where it still pays off.
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Old 29 Dec 2020, 10:38 (Ref:4025595)   #7759
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Right, but by now F1 has become basically the only major series where it still pays off.

We are in agreement. Its just that there are infinity more lines written/published/broadcasted about drivers and teams than there are about the cars themselves. In sportscar racing the opposite was true. Not so in the future.
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Old 29 Dec 2020, 14:42 (Ref:4025631)   #7760
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Despite all the soap-opera around teams and drivers, F1 is actually the last major series where building a better mousetrap still pays off.
Not for long as I can understand. "Frozen" engines, aero-tokens. It's only a beginning of the last step into annual 35 episodes of F1 Cup series. In fact WEC is already here. I hope randomized winning drivers wouldn't forget which race (and in which championship) they actually had won every time they step up the podium. Be prepared to some F1-esque sterile interviews too.
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Old 29 Dec 2020, 18:29 (Ref:4025672)   #7761
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With the greater flexibility in the rules for LMH cars I assume they will be built to a much more powerful / better aero spec then dialled back to the required laptime with very robust components delivering very linear and useable power and making then good to drive in traffic etc.

This ability to over design then dial back to me is where the LMH will ultimately have the advantage whilst still achieving a similar laptime ... or am I being stupid?
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Old 29 Dec 2020, 18:38 (Ref:4025674)   #7762
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With the greater flexibility in the rules for LMH cars I assume they will be built to a much more powerful / better aero spec then dialled back to the required laptime with very robust components delivering very linear and useable power and making then good to drive in traffic etc.

This ability to over design then dial back to me is where the LMH will ultimately have the advantage whilst still achieving a similar laptime ... or am I being stupid?
LMH will be a lot faster than LMDh so yes.
LMH Hybrid will be faster than LMH ICE but rules and BOP will even that out easier than balancing LMDh. The complexity of Hybrid will also IMO be an issue both both LMH Hybrid and LMDh.
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Old 29 Dec 2020, 20:12 (Ref:4025697)   #7763
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I'd like to hear the internal reasoning behind the token hybridisation of LMDh. I suspect the level of cynicism by some OEMs was off the meter. I'm curious as to which ones. Pretty sure all the actual teams must have been against it.

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We are in agreement. Its just that there are infinity more lines written/published/broadcasted about drivers and teams than there are about the cars themselves. In sportscar racing the opposite was true. Not so in the future.
I guess the general public is increasingly disinterested in mouse traps. It's all about using the mice now
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Old 29 Dec 2020, 20:58 (Ref:4025709)   #7764
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I'd like to hear the internal reasoning behind the token hybridisation of LMDh. I suspect the level of cynicism by some OEMs was off the meter. I'm curious as to which ones. Pretty sure all the actual teams must have been against it.


I guess the general public is increasingly disinterested in mouse traps. It's all about using the mice now
$350K to rent a system that makes 40 RWD HP...
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Old 30 Dec 2020, 00:34 (Ref:4025736)   #7765
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very robust components delivering very linear and useable power and making then good to drive in traffic etc.
The power curve is pretty regulated. You can be +/- 20kW at the peak but as little as +/- 10kW at 55% of peak power rpm.

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It's only a beginning of the last step into annual 35 episodes of F1 Cup series.
This is unfair, because although like F1 it has an extremely long rulebook, NASCAR is one of the few major series where you a team can just build a car to a rulebook and show up with it rather than having to buy it from a specific builder and race it as is. Aside from silhouette car brand identity stuff like (some) body panels and engine blocks there's not that many spec parts and development restrictions are only really in the form of track testing and wind tunnel hours.
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Old 30 Dec 2020, 04:01 (Ref:4025754)   #7766
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I'd like to hear the internal reasoning behind the token hybridisation of LMDh. I suspect the level of cynicism by some OEMs was off the meter. I'm curious as to which ones. Pretty sure all the actual teams must have been against it.

I suspect cost and complexity is the issue. Trying to read between the lines, I get the distinct impression LMDh is about sales. It's appealing because OEM's develop a racing product and then get a ROI by selling cars to customers at "affordable" prices.


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I guess the general public is increasingly disinterested in mouse traps. It's all about using the mice now
People tend to relate to people better than they do to cars. As a result , "anoraks" like us get left out in the cold. It's all very unfortunate.

Last edited by Spyderman; 30 Dec 2020 at 04:08.
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Old 30 Dec 2020, 07:28 (Ref:4025765)   #7767
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This is unfair, because although like F1 it has an extremely long rulebook, NASCAR is one of the few major series where you a team can just build a car to a rulebook and show up with it rather than having to buy it from a specific builder and race it as is.
Well, by saying "Cup" I mostly referred to one of the excitingly mind blowing "mono cups".
By the way, isn't 2022 NASCAR chassis a spec one? I thought there would be less freedom for the teams, unfortunately.
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Old 30 Dec 2020, 10:47 (Ref:4025799)   #7768
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Well, by saying "Cup" I mostly referred to one of the excitingly mind blowing "mono cups".
By the way, isn't 2022 NASCAR chassis a spec one? I thought there would be less freedom for the teams, unfortunately.
Yes, built by Dallara!
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Old 30 Dec 2020, 14:17 (Ref:4025827)   #7769
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Yes, built by Dallara!
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Old 30 Dec 2020, 17:11 (Ref:4025863)   #7770
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I suspect cost and complexity is the issue. Trying to read between the lines, I get the distinct impression LMDh is about sales. It's appealing because OEM's develop a racing product and then get a ROI by selling cars to customers at "affordable" prices.
Maybe I didn't makes myself clear. I meant <why token HY?> as opposed to none at all. Your answer only supports the argument that hybrid system is a pointless and unnecessary burden for what's a budget-minded customer racing class.
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Old 30 Dec 2020, 17:32 (Ref:4025864)   #7771
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Maybe I didn't makes myself clear. I meant <why token HY?> as opposed to none at all. Your answer only supports the argument that hybrid system is a pointless and unnecessary burden for what's a budget-minded customer racing class.
I agree. That said there is HUGE PC Pressure to become green. We are looking into several things to address the future and trying to keep ICE possible.
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Old 30 Dec 2020, 17:59 (Ref:4025867)   #7772
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Maybe I didn't makes myself clear. I meant <why token HY?> as opposed to none at all. Your answer only supports the argument that hybrid system is a pointless and unnecessary burden for what's a budget-minded customer racing class.

Token HY because its woke. Need to pay homage to the narrative.
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Old 30 Dec 2020, 18:44 (Ref:4025877)   #7773
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Token HY because its woke. Need to pay homage to the narrative.
Good term there. It's a "Homage Hybrid". Perhaps homage is what the little "h" stands for in LMDh. Not "husky" after all.
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Old 5 Jan 2021, 18:34 (Ref:4027037)   #7774
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I'm also wondering if too many "good" ideas have been thought up. Just look at the stuff that Audi Sport did--they brought modern electronic DFI to auto racing, turbo diesels, helped bring in hybrids. Doesn't help either that rules got more restrictive in hopes of cost containment (restrictive in the wrong areas) while promoting OEMs to sink money into go big or go home hybrid tech. That combined with rules that IMO were too restrictive sent teams--both factory and privateer--chasing dead ends, beating dead horses for diminishing returns.

A lot of that stuff makes me appreciate stuff I saw between 2004 and 2013 or so more and more just because it seemed back then possibilities were limitless, and I wanted to see what would happen next.

At least with LMH and LMDH areo rules have been opened up a bit, weight increases place less incentive on pursuing ultra-lightweight tech and opens up powertrain choices.
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Old 13 Jan 2021, 16:52 (Ref:4028765)   #7775
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Here's what they'll be racing.
https://www.instagram.com/p/CJ_eo_XL...d=ajobs0yylswn
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