Home  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides Veloce Books  
Related Sites: Classic Cars Monthly Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Historic Racing & Motorsport History > Historic Racing Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 14 Jan 2021, 14:03 (Ref:4028982)   #51
zefarelly
Veteran
 
zefarelly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
European Union
Posts: 9,710
zefarelly has a real shot at the podium!zefarelly has a real shot at the podium!zefarelly has a real shot at the podium!zefarelly has a real shot at the podium!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colin McKay View Post
Good luck Andy. This was the scene yesterday at Ashford Customs. According to the local rag, although they didn't say if this was import or export, some drivers queued for 8 hours to clear. Older truckers on here will remember "standing on the stairs" at Dover. At least there was a roof then, "standing in the rain" seems to be the modern equivalent.

The Portacabins you can see are what is being used by HMRC while they continue building the new facility, last I heard it will not be open until the end of Feb. I imagine the lousy weather we're having will push that back further. Photo from the RHA.
If that's not 'Oven ready' I don't know what is.
zefarelly is offline  
Quote
Old 14 Jan 2021, 14:51 (Ref:4028994)   #52
MGDavid
Veteran
 
MGDavid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
England
Berkshire
Posts: 3,809
MGDavid is going for a new lap record!MGDavid is going for a new lap record!MGDavid is going for a new lap record!MGDavid is going for a new lap record!MGDavid is going for a new lap record!MGDavid is going for a new lap record!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colin McKay View Post
Good luck Andy. This was the scene yesterday at Ashford Customs. According to the local rag, although they didn't say if this was import or export, some drivers queued for 8 hours to clear. Older truckers on here will remember "standing on the stairs" at Dover. At least there was a roof then, "standing in the rain" seems to be the modern equivalent.

The Portacabins you can see are what is being used by HMRC while they continue building the new facility, last I heard it will not be open until the end of Feb. I imagine the lousy weather we're having will push that back further. Photo from the RHA.
Colin do you know if that pic is at Waterbrook or Sevington?
MGDavid is offline  
__________________
a salary slave no more...
Quote
Old 14 Jan 2021, 20:14 (Ref:4029108)   #53
Colin McKay
Veteran
 
Colin McKay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
United Kingdom
Posts: 1,685
Colin McKay should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridColin McKay should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
The report says Waterbrook but they seldom get anything right!
Colin McKay is offline  
__________________
Semper ubi sub ubi
Quote
Old 15 Jan 2021, 09:14 (Ref:4029169)   #54
Newall Andy
Rookie
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 70
Newall Andy should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Ok so
On the road now.
No issue anywhere
Straight through
No checks only COVID
No one on the road in Europe
Happy days
Still... got to get home yet
Watch this space

Sorry it’s brief driving one handed !
Andy
Newall Andy is offline  
Quote
Old 15 Jan 2021, 09:18 (Ref:4029171)   #55
delta
Subscriber
Veteran
 
delta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
United Kingdom
Reading UK
Posts: 8,693
delta has a real shot at the podium!delta has a real shot at the podium!delta has a real shot at the podium!delta has a real shot at the podium!delta has a real shot at the podium!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newall Andy View Post
Ok so
On the road now.
No issue anywhere
Straight through
No checks only COVID
No one on the road in Europe
Happy days
Still... got to get home yet
Watch this space

Sorry it’s brief driving one handed !
Andy
May the force be with you Andy. Thanks for posting.
delta is offline  
Quote
Old 15 Jan 2021, 09:18 (Ref:4029172)   #56
Peter Mallett
The Honourable Mallett
20KPINAL
 
Peter Mallett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
England
Here and there
Posts: 37,234
Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Fingers crossed.
Peter Mallett is offline  
__________________
I've decided to stop reaching out to people. I'm just going to contact them instead.
Quote
Old 15 Jan 2021, 09:27 (Ref:4029174)   #57
Newall Andy
Rookie
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 70
Newall Andy should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by delta View Post
May the force be with you Andy. Thanks for posting.
The force is strong in this one
Newall Andy is offline  
Quote
Old 15 Jan 2021, 12:41 (Ref:4029212)   #58
Robert Farrell
Racer
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 176
Robert Farrell should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Andy,
Are you using a truck or a trailer? If a trailer, what are you towing it with,
van or car?
Robert Farrell is offline  
Quote
Old 15 Jan 2021, 14:16 (Ref:4029237)   #59
midgetman
Veteran
 
midgetman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location:
Rural Wiltshire
Posts: 6,778
midgetman will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famemidgetman will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famemidgetman will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famemidgetman will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famemidgetman will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famemidgetman will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famemidgetman will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famemidgetman will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famemidgetman will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
This sounds really hopeful. Never mind the prognostications of MSUK stuck in their offices, on the ground we've been told it's not a problem. Perfect!

Sent from my AC2003 using Tapatalk
midgetman is offline  
__________________
Midgetman - known as Max Tyler to the world. MaxAttaq!
Quote
Old 15 Jan 2021, 14:21 (Ref:4029239)   #60
Peter Mallett
The Honourable Mallett
20KPINAL
 
Peter Mallett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
England
Here and there
Posts: 37,234
Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Quote:
Originally Posted by midgetman View Post
This sounds really hopeful. Never mind the prognostications of MSUK stuck in their offices, on the ground we've been told it's not a problem. Perfect!

Sent from my AC2003 using Tapatalk
So far.......
Peter Mallett is offline  
Quote
Old 15 Jan 2021, 14:50 (Ref:4029244)   #61
Newall Andy
Rookie
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 70
Newall Andy should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Farrell View Post
Andy,
Are you using a truck or a trailer? If a trailer, what are you towing it with,
van or car?
Van and trailer
Trailers empty but could have been full no one bothered to look
Vans full
Jag engine and 2x 289s I’ve sold
Load of GT40 parts I’ve sold
3 x flight cases I’ve sold
Windscreens
You name it
All had invoices ready for inspection
Not a sole bothered
France v quiet
Belgium dead
Holland shutdown but no one appears to bother !
Just on my way to Germany

A
Newall Andy is offline  
Quote
Old 15 Jan 2021, 14:58 (Ref:4029247)   #62
Duddha
Racer
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
United Nations
Geneva, Switzerland
Posts: 455
Duddha should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridDuddha should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridDuddha should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
What you may experience may be different than the text, however, and as a good friend and racer told me, it's up to the point one of us will be asked the question: "Anything to declare?" And that the answer of the custom agent will be: "Fine, let us have a look."

A couple of things for UK to EU:

1 - As a private or commercial entity, towing a car which is road registered and road legal, for which you can demonstrate ownership, the understanding is that there would be no need for ATA carnet in strict terms and a duplicate listing would do the job for all accompanying goods essentially related to the vehicle in question.

2 - As a private or commercial entity, towing a car which is road registered and road legal, for a third party, the understanding is that an ATA carnet is applicable in strict terms and associated carnets for spares related to the vehicle in question as well.

3 - As a multiple private or commercial entity, transporting cars which are either road registered and road legal or not for third parties, the ATA carnet is applicable in strict terms to all cars and associated carnets for spares related to the vehicle in question as well.

• Under ATA regime, an invoice stating ‘value for customs purposes only’ may be required for all consumable items entering with a vehicle e.g. Oil, brake fluid and anything which will be used and not returned.
• CPD or « Carnet de Passage en Douane » are not accepted or considered by the European Union.
• Duplicate listing are not accepted by the European Union as under regime of ATA Carnets and unless under Situation 1.

This would apply the other way around for EU to UK except that Case 1 would go under use of Form C110 "Non-UK private motor vehicle for personal use."

Now the big thing here and to close this, as to Situation 1 – It is likely that customs may require an ATA carnet even if the car is registered as the “intention” prevails. This meaning that even though the vehicle is registered and road legal, the usage and intention is for racing purpose only.


Last, as to the question of the deposit for ATA carnet, best is to go through a freight agent, they have the deposit already registered and will handle the work, small fee to pay but better than having to secure the full money yourself.

Last edited by Duddha; 15 Jan 2021 at 15:10.
Duddha is offline  
__________________
The good, the bad, the ugly, it's the law.
Quote
Old 15 Jan 2021, 15:09 (Ref:4029249)   #63
Newall Andy
Rookie
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 70
Newall Andy should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Can only tell you what it’s been like today.
Good old Boris... stiff upper lip and crack on.

Still, could all change tomorrow

A
Newall Andy is offline  
Quote
Old 15 Jan 2021, 15:12 (Ref:4029251)   #64
andy97
Veteran
 
andy97's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
United Kingdom
Castle Donington
Posts: 4,981
andy97 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridandy97 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newall Andy View Post
Van and trailer
Trailers empty but could have been full no one bothered to look
Vans full
Jag engine and 2x 289s I’ve sold
Load of GT40 parts I’ve sold
3 x flight cases I’ve sold
Windscreens
You name it
All had invoices ready for inspection
Not a sole bothered
France v quiet
Belgium dead
Holland shutdown but no one appears to bother !
Just on my way to Germany

A
Maybe on the ground the new situation / rules have not yet caught up?
andy97 is offline  
Quote
Old 15 Jan 2021, 15:26 (Ref:4029256)   #65
Rudernst
Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Germany
Hamburg
Posts: 722
Rudernst should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridRudernst should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridRudernst should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridRudernst should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy97 View Post
Maybe on the ground the new situation / rules have not yet caught up?
customs officials tend to be smarter than one would imagine..
they screen traffic and look for something unusual worth checking

if somebody crosses the border in a relaxed fashion with no apparent care in the world, the wont bother you

if you are on a little used border crossing road, that normally only locals would know about and use, lets say between Netherlands and Germany with an expensive car and a numberplate from far away, be prepared to get searched for drugs

use the same road towing a trailer of chickenshit to fertilize an outlying field, this is not very likely to get seached....


RudE
Rudernst is offline  
Quote
Old 15 Jan 2021, 15:53 (Ref:4029260)   #66
Peter Mallett
The Honourable Mallett
20KPINAL
 
Peter Mallett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
England
Here and there
Posts: 37,234
Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy97 View Post
Maybe on the ground the new situation / rules have not yet caught up?
Sandwiches?
Peter Mallett is offline  
__________________
I've decided to stop reaching out to people. I'm just going to contact them instead.
Quote
Old 15 Jan 2021, 16:39 (Ref:4029274)   #67
Rudernst
Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Germany
Hamburg
Posts: 722
Rudernst should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridRudernst should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridRudernst should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridRudernst should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Mallett View Post
Sandwiches?

the sandwich clampdown was a bit of a cheap shot,
picking on the poorest blokes down the food chain

they should have made their case and let it go for a week for the truckie grapevine to get the word round

on the other hand:
I am greatly in favor of Napoleons concept of the Continental System
surely, this is the way to go




RudE
Rudernst is offline  
Quote
Old 15 Jan 2021, 16:45 (Ref:4029277)   #68
Peter Mallett
The Honourable Mallett
20KPINAL
 
Peter Mallett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
England
Here and there
Posts: 37,234
Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudernst View Post
the sandwich clampdown was a bit of a cheap shot,
picking on the poorest blokes down the food chain

they should have made their case and let it go for a week for the truckie grapevine to get the word round
Yes, we would call it using their discretion. (I mentioned it simply to point out that the rules appear to be known).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudernst View Post
on the other hand:
I am greatly in favor of Napoleons concept of the Continental System
surely, this is the way to go



RudE
One word: Waterloo
Peter Mallett is offline  
__________________
I've decided to stop reaching out to people. I'm just going to contact them instead.
Quote
Old 16 Jan 2021, 07:52 (Ref:4029382)   #69
Tim Falce
Race Official
Veteran
 
Tim Falce's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
England
Very edge of S E London almost in Kent
Posts: 11,141
Tim Falce is going for a new world record!Tim Falce is going for a new world record!Tim Falce is going for a new world record!Tim Falce is going for a new world record!Tim Falce is going for a new world record!Tim Falce is going for a new world record!Tim Falce is going for a new world record!
I've only skim read this thread so apologies if I missed it but from my vague and distant memory when we needed trailer carnets in the early seventies for Europe I had to get them from the AA in Leicester square. They were pricey back then, I think £6 a go but that was because the AA provided a bond that they were liable for if you failed to bring the trailer back to the UK.
I stand to be corrected, and probably will be, but that's how I remember it. Does the price of the carnet now include that bond is do you have to get it on top?
Tim Falce is offline  
Quote
Old 16 Jan 2021, 08:39 (Ref:4029384)   #70
Gerard C
Veteran
 
Gerard C's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
France
My place
Posts: 9,979
Gerard C has a real shot at the championship!Gerard C has a real shot at the championship!Gerard C has a real shot at the championship!Gerard C has a real shot at the championship!Gerard C has a real shot at the championship!
Pick from # 62 above:
Last, as to the question of the deposit for ATA carnet, best is to go through a freight agent, they have the deposit already registered and will handle the work, small fee to pay but better than having to secure the full money yourself.
Does this help you, Tim?
Gerard C is offline  
__________________
Celui qui est parti de rien pour arriver nulle part,n'a de merci a dire a personne.Pour ceux qui vont chercher midi a quatorze heures, la minute de Vérité risque de se faire attendre longtemps.
Quote
Old 16 Jan 2021, 09:26 (Ref:4029394)   #71
Peter Mallett
The Honourable Mallett
20KPINAL
 
Peter Mallett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
England
Here and there
Posts: 37,234
Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Having read the advice in post 62 (thanks again Louis), what happens if the car is not road registered and/or has only a bill of sale as proof of ownership, but is being towed by a private individual? Also whilst spares and consumables must be listed for the vehicle, what about tools?

Just did a quick search and found this company https://www.ata-carnet.uk/eu/. There are others including the Birmingham CoC, so I may try to determine the costs for my MG to use as an example.

Last edited by Peter Mallett; 16 Jan 2021 at 09:38.
Peter Mallett is offline  
__________________
I've decided to stop reaching out to people. I'm just going to contact them instead.
Quote
Old 16 Jan 2021, 10:16 (Ref:4029403)   #72
Geraint Owen
Racer
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 100
Geraint Owen should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duddha View Post
What you may experience may be different than the text, however, and as a good friend and racer told me, it's up to the point one of us will be asked the question: "Anything to declare?" And that the answer of the custom agent will be: "Fine, let us have a look."

A couple of things for UK to EU:

1 - As a private or commercial entity, towing a car which is road registered and road legal, for which you can demonstrate ownership, the understanding is that there would be no need for ATA carnet in strict terms and a duplicate listing would do the job for all accompanying goods essentially related to the vehicle in question.




Now the big thing here and to close this, as to Situation 1 – It is likely that customs may require an ATA carnet even if the car is registered as the “intention” prevails. This meaning that even though the vehicle is registered and road legal, the usage and intention is for racing purpose only.

Thanks for this Louis. It is most helpful. I am still disappointed that MUK didnt look at things in more detail before they published what they did this week.

But I would like to pick you up on one point. In red you state "it is likely". I would argue either they do or they do not. HMRC really need to have a clear position on this. Some definitive guidance is needed and it needs to be published so that it can be shown to any over zealous border guard. MUK could have done more to support its club level licence holders. I assume the rally guys are just as up in arms. The trackday crowd going to the 'Ring are.

There are other questions. What, for example, would they do if you were taking a car to show at Retromobile or on a driving holiday? Same car, same border but different intention. What happens if I want to do some road miles as well as track miles when in Europe? Given the car would be fine if driven it is tricky. I can see people being stopped and simply dropping the car off the trailer!

I have written to HMRC directly and asked them to clarify. I will share any reply
Geraint Owen is offline  
Quote
Old 17 Jan 2021, 09:44 (Ref:4029579)   #73
Peter Mallett
The Honourable Mallett
20KPINAL
 
Peter Mallett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
England
Here and there
Posts: 37,234
Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newall Andy View Post
Can only tell you what it’s been like today.
Good old Boris... stiff upper lip and crack on.

Still, could all change tomorrow

A
Any update or should we send food parcels?
Peter Mallett is offline  
__________________
I've decided to stop reaching out to people. I'm just going to contact them instead.
Quote
Old 17 Jan 2021, 09:53 (Ref:4029582)   #74
Gerard C
Veteran
 
Gerard C's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
France
My place
Posts: 9,979
Gerard C has a real shot at the championship!Gerard C has a real shot at the championship!Gerard C has a real shot at the championship!Gerard C has a real shot at the championship!Gerard C has a real shot at the championship!
https://www.savorychicks.com/2016/05...-napoleon.html
Gerard C is offline  
__________________
Celui qui est parti de rien pour arriver nulle part,n'a de merci a dire a personne.Pour ceux qui vont chercher midi a quatorze heures, la minute de Vérité risque de se faire attendre longtemps.
Quote
Old 17 Jan 2021, 11:07 (Ref:4029590)   #75
Newall Andy
Rookie
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 70
Newall Andy should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Mallett View Post
Any update or should we send food parcels?
Hi.
No all good thanks.
Still in Germany, off to Hamburg tomorrow, all hotels open if you have a business card, but the bars are closed 😔.
Still, you can buy Bitburger by the crate in supermarkets so the worlds all great.
COVID-19 test booked for 10.30 Tuesday at the local quacks so I can get back in when arriving home and it’s only 35 Euro !
Results while you wait.
Imagine a German trying to get that done in your local Boots !
Newall Andy is offline  
Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Safety requirements for Historic racing at Nurburgring Mike Bell Historic Racing Today 14 25 Jun 2013 22:05
License requirements in the BTCC Radisichrox Touring Car Racing 13 23 Jan 2002 20:47
Brazil GP will not meet all safety requirements Speed Formula One 17 30 Nov 2001 17:37
New safety requirements for Pit Crews? KC NASCAR & Stock Car Racing 3 13 Nov 2001 01:43


All times are GMT. The time now is 14:12.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2021 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2021-2022 Grant MacDonald. All Rights Reserved.