Supercars Gen 3 (2022)

[mayhem]

I'd watch that lot race tractors, but thats irrelevant. Such a lineup would never be possible.

Engine note would rank a long way down the reason for Formula Brabham/Holden not working as a stand alone category.

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by mayhem

Engine note would rank a long way down the reason for Formula Brabham/Holden not working as a stand alone category.

If Peter Jackson Racing, Winfield Racing, the Holden Racing Team, etc were all in Formula Brabham instead of the ATCC, it could have worked quite well IMO!

[2 litre Touring Car Star]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

If Peter Jackson Racing, Winfield Racing, the Holden Racing Team, etc were all in Formula Brabham instead of the ATCC, it could have worked quite well IMO!

You'd lose a lot of money, expertise and popularity of racing if it did.

Bud, the points you make for F3000 are the same the supercars fans make for supercars against 2 litre cars. And those guys are always wrong.

Any mid-range openwheeler class in Australia is unlikely to succeed because Australia is not a motor racing hub, and that mid range openwheelers are a "stepping stone" classes instead of outright professional classes.

The other way mid-range openwheelers succeed is if they're great value for money, but they never are.

[chavez]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

If Peter Jackson Racing, Winfield Racing, the Holden Racing Team, etc were all in Formula Brabham instead of the ATCC, it could have worked quite well IMO!

One out of three ain't bad.

[bloxsidgemotorsport]

i really hope s5000 works, its a fantastic looking class with lots of potential.

BUTTTTTTTT what does TCR, S5000 etc have to do with Supercar Gen3 regulations??? None

Back to topic, interesting discussion happening around whether push to pass or paddle shift should be introduced into Gen3.

[Beages]

Back on topic - Lexus RC F. Any chance now Supercars are prepared to foot some of the costs? Would the new engine regs make it easier (cheaper) to develop their own 5 Litre to a competitive level?

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by Beages

Back on topic - Lexus RC F. Any chance now Supercars are prepared to foot some of the costs? Would the new engine regs make it easier (cheaper) to develop their own 5 Litre to a competitive level?

Supercars should pay for both the Lexus LC500 (or Toyota Supra) and Nissan 400Z (or GTR), and then ensure the grid is divided equally at 6 cars each... Especially the latter given all Nissan have spent on the category, but I don't think they have the ethics for it. The administration only seems interested in paying for General Motors body styles...





If it doesn't have a bow-tie on it, it just doesn't seem to be a priority for Supercars, there seems to be little conviction to cater to Nissan and Toyota racing supporters.

[rich07]

Originally Posted by Beages

Back on topic - Lexus RC F. Any chance now Supercars are prepared to foot some of the costs? Would the new engine regs make it easier (cheaper) to develop their own 5 Litre to a competitive level?

The car (and engine) already exist courtesy of GT3.

It doesn’t make any sense whatsoever for Lexus (or a team) to have to build a new car from scratch when they should be able to enter the GT3 car.

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by rich07

It doesn’t make any sense whatsoever for Lexus (or a team) to have to build a new car from scratch when they should be able to enter the GT3 car.

The GT3 car doesn't comply with the rules for a variety of reasons (obviously the tyres are far too wide, the car has too much aero etc). But Supercars should be showing a lot more motivation to secure a diverse variety of brands.

The Kiwis can do it for a sixpence, but for Supercars it's apparently all too hard unless it's GM.

[bloxsidgemotorsport]

love to see the toyota supra or nissan 400zx be used. Both have v8's and cars that can be used and built to gen 3 specs.

I'd add the major reason Supercars is doing the camaro is the need for a GM based product on the grid in 2022. Over half the teams run that brand right now.

The toyota or nissan would need to come from another team - maybe WAU or could Kelly Racing have another go? Would Erebus be interested?

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by bloxsidgemotorsport

The toyota or nissan would need to come from another team - maybe WAU or could Kelly Racing have another go? Would Erebus be interested?

Two cars is not enough, there's needs to be at least 4-6 cars for each brand.

Current Mustang and Camaro are available with a H pattern manual, so therefore if Supercars want to be road relevant then go back to a proper manual!

https://www.speedcafe.com/2021/01/21...-and-toe-dumb/

Is it possible to adapt the X-Trac transaxle to a H-pattern shift? If so I would like to see that.

[Beages]

Originally Posted by rich07

The car (and engine) already exist courtesy of GT3.

It doesn’t make any sense whatsoever for Lexus (or a team) to have to build a new car from scratch when they should be able to enter the GT3 car.

I don't think the GT3 Lexus helps sell any cars in Australia. Supercars has bigger exposure to cashed up bogans. The price of them are in the ballpark too.
So if the Supercars pay for the body and having the existing GT3 Lexus V8 engine (nice head start and cheaper engine program) may seem feasible to Lexus. Just my thoughts.

[Casper]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

If all the top drivers and race teams in Australia (plus plenty of top imports like Magnussen, Vandoorne etc) raced open wheel cars, ones which sound good, I think it could be very successful indeed, and not cost anymore than running a 3A Touring Car for a season.

Of course they would be unable to race at Bathurst because of safety issues, but circuits like Eastern Creek, Phillip Island and The Bend would all be excellent for hosting state Grand Prixs. Heck such a category would be more than sufficient to headline the South Australian Grand Prix at the Adelaide Parklands, and the Queensland Grand Prix at the Surfers Paradise Circuit.

People love (proper) open wheel racing, it is a lot of fun! S5000 is a good try but it's not quite there, it's too obvious they are modified F3 cars with Ford small block V8s, and I don't believe the fuel tank capacity (which has not been expanded from the F3) is sufficient to run a 305km Grand Prix.

GP2 regularly produces exceptional close racing, and it only costs $1.5m AUD per car per season (about the same as running a Supercar), so a similar Formula 3000-type class could easily be Australia's (and Australasia's) premier circuit racing category IMO. Races in Malaysia at the world class Sepang circuit, Thailand at the Buriram Circuit, Indonesia at the Sentul circuit and so on, would only add to the calibre of Australasia's premier open-wheel Grand Prix series.

Formula Holden by comparison was too much of a cut-priced, bare bones minor class -- some of this self-inflicted by running a meagre grid of ancient 8-year-old Reynards with Buick V6s that sound awful -- instead of a flagship premier F3000/Grand Prix series of a higher status, headline 305km Grand Prixs at Adelaide/Gold Coast, and higher commercial relevance than the ATCC.

...Who wouldn't want to watch Hartley, van Gisbergen, Reid, McLaughlin, Whincup, Halliday, Albon, Vandoorne, Magnussen, Winterbottom, Vips, Mostert, de Silvestro and co banging wheels in Australiasia's premier open-wheel class in cars plastered with brands like Penrite, Shell, Red Bull etc!?

What has all that got to do with you saying the engine note destroyed the class because they were not true race engines?

Anyway, I saw F5000 in it's heyday and some Tasman stuff before that and because the chain of open wheelers has been broken in Oz for a long while I fear they will never be back. I was always sceptical of the new F5000 and I am sure it will sink into obscurity because Australian motor sport fans just don't "get" what open wheelers are all about. Open wheel stars from OS is a dead pipe dream but if you are so sure of its potential have a go and get it done.

[V8 Fireworks]

Here's the Gen 3 pile of tubes:

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

Two cars is not enough, there's needs to be at least 4-6 cars for each brand.

If you wanted to get an idea of car or team, it would need to be with multiple racing teams, with different engine sources. Single source did not give a true indication of Nissan nor Mercedes competitiveness.

[Compromised]

So when can we expect the Gen 3 postponement announcement?

[Backagain]

Originally Posted by Compromised

So when can we expect the Gen 3 postponement announcement?

You must have missed the big announcement, Mr. Seamer has personally taken over management of the project so all is good, will be delivered well before schedule.

[Compromised]

Originally Posted by Backagain

You must have missed the big announcement, Mr. Seamer has personally taken over management of the project so all is good, will be delivered well before schedule.

Oh good. June isn't far away, can't wait to see a Gen 3 car on track!

[chavez]

Speedcafe reporting "Crisis Talks".

https://www.speedcafe.com/2021/05/06...risis-meeting/

Surely we can't go into next year with Commondoors, can we?

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by chavez

Surely we can't go into next year with Commondoors, can we?

Why not?

You still see far more Opel Commodores driving around than Chevrolet Camaros...

As a silhouette series, what does it matter what the body shapes are?

I'm more concerned about the GT3-push with unwanted items like paddle shift and digital rearview mirror. Stuff that nobody asked for.

[chavez]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

Why not?

You still see far more Opel Commodores driving around than Chevrolet Camaros...

As a silhouette series, what does it matter what the body shapes are?

I'm more concerned about the GT3-push with unwanted items like paddle shift and digital rearview mirror. Stuff that nobody asked for.

Perhaps it doesn't matter, but as someone who is constantly explaining to his semi interested mates that the cars as not hotted up road cars it might provide them some comfort to them that we won't run out of new Commodores to race if replaced by the Camaro.

Two weeks ago I had to explain to a senior engineer at Ford that the cars are not modified road cars.

[Kingair]

The thought of a digital rear view mirror in the Gen3 Supercars, that gives me wet dreams looking forward to 2022 season!

Supercars and C7 will able to do at least 40 ineffectual puff pieces on that item during any race weekend.

Now Sean, have you thought the Gen3 cars being equipped with electric car aerials, 8 track cassette players, or roof racks?

[Maggo]

autonomous driving would be a good idea. Saves the costs for the drivers

[bathurst77]

Is anyone going to care if its silhouette mustang vs camaro?

We already have trans-am racing series (Which is damned good)

[Compromised]

Originally Posted by bathurst77

We already have trans-am racing series (Which is damned good)

It's like all the niches are occupied by other racing series and as Supercars try to evolve/progress, no matter what they think up, somebody's already in that space.

Now they are trying to move on from lame duck #1 (ZB) to lame duck #2 (Camaro, uncertain future imo, horrible sales). Reeks of desperation, holding on tight to the last vestiges of "me like red" and of course, "me like blue"