[Team] Williams: Do they have a spare tub?

[Aysedasi]

Sorry, I guess I should have looked back at the record books before I posted. One of those 'Who knows?', I suppose. I always tend to look back at the 'what might have been' scenarios and think of Jan Magnussen......

[Moneyseeker]

Key thing is that the team is now owned by business people, who will use the logic that if you can buy in an element of the car that is as good or better than you can make yourself, they will. Why did Williams design and make their own gearbox, when they could buy the one from Mercedes that was specifically designed to work with the engine they have? That is wasted cost and misguided 'independence'.

This will not be a universally popular view, but Williams were not 'business people', they were massively devoted to the team to the extent that they had already sold assets and borrowed against what they had left to keep the team going.

Ironically I think that perhaps run as a 'business', and without the family passion baggage, it will make them leaner, more nimble and efficient and probably more competitive as a result.

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by Moneyseeker

Key thing is that the team is now owned by business people, who will use the logic that if you can buy in an element of the car that is as good or better than you can make yourself, they will. Why did Williams design and make their own gearbox, when they could buy the one from Mercedes that was specifically designed to work with the engine they have? That is wasted cost and misguided 'independence'.

This will not be a universally popular view, but Williams were not 'business people', they were massively devoted to the team to the extent that they had already sold assets and borrowed against what they had left to keep the team going.

Ironically I think that perhaps run as a 'business', and without the family passion baggage, it will make them leaner, more nimble and efficient and probably more competitive as a result.

I have to say a couple of things here.
Firstly I am sure that you are correct in all of this. SFW & SPH are out and out racers whose mindset was pointed in the direction that 'if we use something someone else uses, we can only be as good as they are'. 'If we go our own way on something it could be even better which will give us an advantage'. Sadly although this worked well in the past, it's not worked for them lately.
Secondly I hope that the leaner & more efficient operation will give the team the success that they deserve and (ironically) lift Team Willy back up to where they belong.

[S griffin]

I have a lot of faith in the new owners. They certainly seem to have a very good budget and should be able to help Williams get up the grid more

[Kato]

Do they have a plan? Let's see what's in the secret envelope. Umm, it just says "get a podium". For heaven's sake don't tell anybody.

[E.B]

Originally Posted by Kato

Do they have a plan? Let's see what's in the secret envelope. Umm, it just says "get a podium". For heaven's sake don't tell anybody.

Podium? Get a point or two and that will be a start.

[peebee2]

The new owners have been steadily investing in new and updated factory kit - something that has been ignored for many seasons. Good to see, and though it might not impact 2021 too much, it should start to help from 2022 and beyond.

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by peebee2

The new owners have been steadily investing in new and updated factory kit - something that has been ignored for many seasons. Good to see, and though it might not impact 2021 too much, it should start to help from 2022 and beyond.

Its not just kit A clear out of over overpaid Cruisers would be a good thing to

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by billy bleach

Its not just kit A clear out of over overpaid Cruisers would be a good thing to

Spot on. That did start a couple of years ago, but am sure still a couple more to go too! Some of those media-heroes also led to good talent leaving, another problem that won’t be fixed in five minutes.

[2 litre Touring Car Star]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

I can see some logic - although I would have said possibly, as opposed to probably.

The logic (I think) is that in the 1999 British Formula Three Championship - Hynes finished comfortably ahead of Button. So arguably, Hynes may have performed better than Button in 2000 - but whether he could have gone on to have the success of Button is debatable.

After crmalcom's post, do I still a have to answer?

[Aysedasi]

No, probably not, but taking into account such as my Magnussen reference, success in F3 is no guarantee of success in F1. But yes, point happily taken.

[2 litre Touring Car Star]

Magnussen is different. He had an opportunity.

What is peculiar about Hynes being overlooked for Button. Is the team that they were driving (Renault engines?) for had some kind of pressure to win the cship, because they missed out the previous two years to PSR.

So Hynes won when there was a pressure and expectation to win (Like in F1), so it was a credit to him do it. Whereas with Button, it was a free hit with any weakness overlooked.

Then he had the charmed life of 2 freebie F1 seasons.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by 2 litre Touring Car Star

Magnussen is different. He had an opportunity.

What is peculiar about Hynes being overlooked for Button. Is the team that they were driving (Renault engines?) for had some kind of pressure to win the cship, because they missed out the previous two years to PSR.

So Hynes won when there was a pressure and expectation to win (Like in F1), so it was a credit to him do it. Whereas with Button, it was a free hit with any weakness overlooked.

Then he had the charmed life of 2 freebie F1 seasons.

The Hynes career stall was odd but strongly suspect him not being extremely well financed and/or not linked to a development scheme had a major bearing.

I certainly fully expected him to progress to F3000 but if he didn't have the wherewithal to do that, F1 was never on. Shame, he was clearly a top talent.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

No, probably not, but taking into account such as my Magnussen reference, success in F3 is no guarantee of success in F1. But yes, point happily taken.

Yes I feel the same about Jan as you, and there are many more who looked dynamite on the way up but then appeared to have some kind of confidence or performance crisis in F1 which curtailed their careers.

There's loads of drivers I rooted for and was delighted when they made it to the top, and then mystified when they didn't then go on to achieve wins let alone challenge for titles!

I am still off topic I know but there must also be many examples of drivers having all the support and equipment in the junior categories which assisted their rise up the ranks, but which also may have masked their true abilities. This one might be a bit tricky to go into and all this might be worth an interesting separate thread Ayse?

[S griffin]

On the flip side Hunt and Mansell never achieved much in lower formulas, yet they went on to become world champions

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by chunterer

This one might be a bit tricky to go into and all this might be worth an interesting separate thread Ayse?

Ah, quite possibly, but it could well develop into yet another thread about Tommy Byrne.....

It is interesting though. I returned from the 'wilderness' to start watching racing again around 1984/85. I watched a lot of F3 over the period between 1984 and 1990. Due to their (and my) links with Racing for Britain I closely followed Johnny Herbert and Andy Wallace and was disappointed when Wallace never made it to F1. Looking at the list of champions, it's littered with drivers who did well in F3 but never really made it in (or to) F1.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...hree_champions

I remember driving and being driven around Donington park on a Saab day by Kelvin Burt and if you look at the British F3 champions between him in 1993 and (say) Danny Ric in 2009 who just didn't cut it in F1, there are a lot of them. Whether that says more about the changing face of F1 or the once fertile breeding ground provided by F3, I don't know...

[midgetman]

F3 is all about huge amounts of junior testosterone, driving under powered cars absolutely flat out for a short period of time. F1 is driving cars with huge power kept in check by incredibly clever engineering for a couple of hours at a time. This was magnified back in the 2 litre halcyon days we're talking about.

Despite everyone being able to do it on PlayStation, it takes a special person to cut the mustard at F1 level. The driving of the car may actually be the least of the problems, and drivers who aren't 100% the real deal are chewed up and spat out. Some don't even get there because they just don't have "it". Whether it be the political skills to profit from a "junior scheme" or the fact they just can't handle the jump in power and speed it's not having the full package that matters.



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[billy bleach]

New sponsor ? Rich with energy?........

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by billy bleach

New sponsor ? Rich with energy?........

No, really?

[chunterer]

I thought I saw a team advert or announcement about this the other day. But thought it was a dream (a bad one) so ignored it!

[peebee2]

Did hear this last week. Wasn’t sure if wind up or not!

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by peebee2

Did hear this last week. Wasn’t sure if wind up or not!

There was also something going round this week (on Twitter?) about how Storey is indebted to Bernie.

[Moneyseeker]

You may recall that Williams met with RE, believed they had a deal and then learnt that RE had signed with Haas..

[E.B]

Originally Posted by peebee2

Did hear this last week. Wasn’t sure if wind up or not!

I was just hoping it was some confusion between the team name and Mr Storey's Christian name.

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by chunterer

There was also something going round this week (on Twitter?) about how Storey is indebted to Bernie.

And there’s still plenty who think BCE is the money behind the new Williams ownership.