[WEC] LMP Future Regulations (was Le Mans EVO rules - now hypercar rules)

[Gingers4Justice]

Stop sitting on the fence, truebeliever. What do you really think about the ACO?

[truebeliever]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

Stop sitting on the fence, truebeliever. What do you really think about the ACO?

If I did that, that would be just nasty!!

I suppose I should just see the French logic, that says you screw up a successful, well supported class (LMP2), in order to support a new ''Premier'' class with a few OEM supporters!

Wouldn't the logical path have been to make the Hypercars quicker, and leave P2 as it was?

But I suppose that logic has never been an ACO hallmark. They could have made a new regulation = no P2 can ever lead a lap over a Hypercar, you get a 1/2/3 minute stop and go for that! I am sure the OEM's would be in favor.

[chernaudi]

Well, this is what happens when the ACO uses the Hypercar rules to revive their not significantly under 3:30 laptime obsession for the top class.

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by truebeliever

Wouldn't the logical path have been to make the Hypercars quicker, and leave P2 as it was?

Well if Aston hadn't started with what appears to be a dog (for this class and speed of racing) of a car and had quit earlier we might not be in this mess at all

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Well, this is what happens when the ACO uses the Hypercar rules to revive their not significantly under 3:30 laptime obsession for the top class.

I think the fans have more of an obsession over this than what the ACO ever did.

[chernaudi]

I don't think most fans want to see the top class restricted to 3:30 at LM. The ACO have been pushing for it since at least 2007.

Whatever the reason, or the ACO making the Hypercars that much slower by default by making them so overweight, it's caused a stack up that might even see GTE nerfed. Which GTE got aero and power boost because GT3 got GT1 influenced aero on them a few years back.

Granted, making the LMP1/LMH cars so portly will reduce costs by default, but wanna know what would've done that too? Reducing the reliance on hybrid systems for power, and reducing their urge to kiss up to OEMs in exchange for cash.

[hondafan37]

I do not understand why there is so much obsession to protect LMP2 in this forum.
LMP2 is a spec category, ORECA-Gibson Spec category!!!!!!!
Sports car lovers hate Spec categories like me!!!!
The ACO killed the real LMP2, when was Porsche RS spyder vs Acura ARX.
Hypercars allows again the variety and I love this variety I HATE the SPEC category like LMP2!!!!

[Mike E]

I don't know if 3:30 is the right level to aim at for the top class but the Circuit de la Sarthe is a Grade 2 street track. If the cars just keep getting faster, at some point the FIA will step in due to safety concerns. Or we end up with more tarmac runoff, barriers moved back etc etc.

Who cares if the top class runs 3:15 or 3:30, the issue here is the mess the ACO have made of the relative speeds of the classes. The latest knee jerk reaction of more weight, less downforce and less power could have been mandated months ago, or even announced at the same time as the unified LMH/LMDh regs.

[Simmi]

Originally Posted by Mike E

I don't know if 3:30 is the right level to aim at for the top class but the Circuit de la Sarthe is a Grade 2 street track. If the cars just keep getting faster, at some point the FIA will step in due to safety concerns. Or we end up with more tarmac runoff, barriers moved back etc etc.

Who cares if the top class runs 3:15 or 3:30, the issue here is the mess the ACO have made of the relative speeds of the classes. The latest knee jerk reaction of more weight, less downforce and less power could have been mandated months ago, or even announced at the same time as the unified LMH/LMDh regs.

Agreed on not necessarily being fussed about the average laptime. But I get the feeling they will continue to neuter the track regardless of what the stopwatch says.

[WyldStallion]

Originally Posted by hondafan37

I do not understand why there is so much obsession to protect LMP2 in this forum.
LMP2 is a spec category, ORECA-Gibson Spec category!!!!!!!
Sports car lovers hate Spec categories like me!!!!
The ACO killed the real LMP2, when was Porsche RS spyder vs Acura ARX.
Hypercars allows again the variety and I love this variety I HATE the SPEC category like LMP2!!!!

This is the most awesomnest comment I have seen on this forum in a long time. Here Here. 100% agree.

[peetleouf]

ACO wanted faster Hypercars, but the merger with imsa's LMDh has forced the Hypercar category to slow down.
So, you don't want the ACO / IMSA merging?

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by peetleouf

ACO wanted faster Hypercars, but the merger with imsa's LMDh has forced the Hypercar category to slow down.
So, you don't want the ACO / IMSA merging?

Ummm, that's not correct at all. Every single thing you said was incorrect there

[SnoodyMcFlude]

Originally Posted by peetleouf

ACO wanted faster Hypercars, but the merger with imsa's LMDh has forced the Hypercar category to slow down.
So, you don't want the ACO / IMSA merging?

Pretty sure the ACO always said that they wanted Hypercars to be targeting 3:30 at Le Mans, and being BOPped to that lap time. As I recall, that was before proper talks began to have a class which would be eligible in both IMSA and ACO series.

[S griffin]

I don’t think laptime should be that important and BoP will always be tough to implement. Anyway I look forward to how the Hypercars go. And with IMSA having an uncertain future and ACO having their own problems to deal with, I can’t see them having IMSA cars joining in at Le Mans

[Napolis]

Originally Posted by SnoodyMcFlude

Pretty sure the ACO always said that they wanted Hypercars to be targeting 3:30 at Le Mans, and being BOPped to that lap time. As I recall, that was before proper talks began to have a class which would be eligible in both IMSA and ACO series.

That time and the reduction in HP from 870 to 670 was part of the desire to enable convergence. We were part of those discussions and agreed to reduce our 870 which obviously affected desired lap times.
The ACO and IMSA definitely want convergence to work and I think they will work together to make that happen.

[CTD]

Once the convergence is completed, who knows - they might "up the power" slowly through evolutions of the rules.

[Gingers4Justice]

Originally Posted by CTD

Once the convergence is completed, who knows - they might "up the power" slowly through evolutions of the rules.

Of course that will happen. The lap times will decrease anyway. LMP1s were doing sub 3:15 lap times despite the regulations, not because of them.

In the mid-2000s, the top class were doing 3:30s and then with development, the lap times came tumbling down. Obviously LMHs are homologated, but new, quicker cars will join and the BOP will be made faster, as well as advances in set-up and understanding of any track changes.

I'm also finding the criticism of slowing down LMP2 slightly odd, I can remember all the way back to - checks notes - 4 years ago when people complained about the new P2 regs. I, for one, actually agree with everything said in criticism of the time and I would be perfectly happy for that category to die. I hate spec racing. I just find it odd that so many are now defending it !

[Mike E]

I think the criticism is more that slowing them down is actually necessary due to completely foreseeable changes to the top class, and those changes have been clumsily executed.
Not sure anyone is actually defending LMPOreca in its current form.

[peetleouf]

Ummm, that's not correct at all. Every single thing you said was incorrect there

As Napolis says, in the beginning, the power of the engines was much more important.
I therefore deduce that the problem would not have arisen without the convergence.


https://www.endurance-info.com/fr/to...ires-lmh-lmdh/

[DistortedSmile]

Originally Posted by peetleouf

As Napolis says, in the beginning, the power of the engines was much more important.
I therefore deduce that the problem would not have arisen without the convergence.


https://www.endurance-info.com/fr/to...ires-lmh-lmdh/

Convergence is the main reason there's so much manufacturer interest in the first place, the poor execution and BoP mess is another problem.

[peetleouf]

Originally Posted by DistortedSmile

Convergence is the main reason there's so much manufacturer interest in the first place, the poor execution and BoP mess is another problem.

I agree with you and I do not complain about the convergence.
But it seems unfair to me to say that it has no impact on the current BOP problems.

[TF110]

I think if imsa put its foot down and said hybrids need to make more power, the 800+hp would have stayed. Im hopeful in a years time they at least consider dropping minimum weight to 950kg or thereabouts.

[Mike E]

It's an impressive driver line up developing this hydrogen car - Vandoorne, Nato and Richelmi.
And they are getting even further ahead of the game than all the GT drivers jumping into LMP2.

http://www.dailysportscar.com/2021/0...r-for-h24.html

[Mal]

Originally Posted by peetleouf

As Napolis says, in the beginning, the power of the engines was much more important.
I therefore deduce that the problem would not have arisen without the convergence.


https://www.endurance-info.com/fr/to...ires-lmh-lmdh/

That is correct to a point - but the main reason things were to be slowed was if I recall correctly when Aston Martin wanted to join with a road car based project they insisted that the minimum weight was increased. This was before convegence was a thing as the ACO at that point wanted to go it alone.

[Mike E]

If only someone had written this all down while it was happening...