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Old 11 May 2021, 10:13 (Ref:4051002)   #201
Csaba
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Errr... wrong thread
Not really, I just wanted to compare the two cases, with the same conclusion: if you have big money and backing, your ban won't be too long in any touring car series...

But it seems like no one understood it (not talking about you), or at least people don't like to compare things between series.
And a lot of BTCC fans are "afraid" of TCR, and consciously ignore those chapions... just kidding
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Old 11 May 2021, 10:44 (Ref:4051009)   #202
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hen henths should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
That was an intriguing start to the season! The weather made qualifying a bit more interesting and I was excited for Ash getting pole in the first race, given that I'm so used to see him starting the year on the back foot with car teething troubles for the first few meetings (the trouble with the turbo on race day might count as one but they resolved it quickly so hopefully it's not a bad omen)! Then of course my heart sank when Colin spun him off, I'm sure unintentionally, at the first corner. He did a top job once again of salvaging the weekend though, no doubt helped by the challenging weather conditions.

The first two races just felt horrible to me -- just too many big crashes. I think you've covered most of that so I'll just say that I felt most sorry for Geddie, Edwards and Butcher (How many times now has an incident involving Neate hindered Jade's progress?!). The third race was very enjoyable though. Hill was pretty impressive so it seems he's really found his feet this year. A pleasant surprise seeing JP grab 2nd as well and with Turkingtonish levels of consistency through the whole day. If his rivals had a whole lot of bad luck I could almost see him with a mathematical chance at the title. Almost. Really I think he capitalized on staying out of trouble while others went off and then did well with his tyres in the changing conditions of Race 3. Anyway it's good to see him competitive again.

It's always interesting how much a new year seems to mix up the order of the top drivers. I know Turks has struggled with wet setups but it feels like the BMWs are maybe not going to be so dominant compared to a couple of years ago -- I even wondered if there's been a change in boost -- but it's wild speculation at this stage after only one weekend.

I root for Ash and would love to see him grab a third title. When I saw Shedden was back and how well he did in free practise I suspected he'd be his toughest rival this year but come race day the results were more mixed so time will tell. Rowbottom was really good. Cook could possibly win the championship with some luck if he keeps doing this well but maybe the RWD circuits will put a stop to that.
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Old 11 May 2021, 11:06 (Ref:4051013)   #203
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Agreed, no one seems to want to close the door on the bloke, even Oliphant just let him by, why when Turkington has to fight for every position! ?*???*??
I'm biased because I'm a Sutton fan so I wasn't hugely bothered by that. I'll just say that yes I know it is annoying when they let some by and not others -- the ultimate example of course being the 2015 finale with cars parting like the Red Sea for Shedden while JP's team mate Smith holds him up, arguably costing him his third title.

I guess it's part of the human element of Touring Cars. They all know how fast Ash is as well and how he'll leap into the tiniest little gap.

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That worked out well, Toca’s golden boy wins again so everybody is happy!
Nah he's been dealt plenty of harsh decisions, like that great overtake right at the end of a race that got him 1st but was then reversed by the stewards -- was it 2017? I've forgotten.
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Old 11 May 2021, 12:01 (Ref:4051026)   #204
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Matt K should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridMatt K should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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I'm biased because I'm a Sutton fan so I wasn't hugely bothered by that. I'll just say that yes I know it is annoying when they let some by and not others -- the ultimate example of course being the 2015 finale with cars parting like the Red Sea for Shedden while JP's team mate Smith holds him up, arguably costing him his third title.

I guess it's part of the human element of Touring Cars. They all know how fast Ash is as well and how he'll leap into the tiniest little gap.
I'd also add (although I may be biased as well) that in many cases Ash is so quick that blocking him would result in a disaster or at least wouldn't help the guy ahead as he'd still be passed. And quite often Sutton comes out of nowhere and people just can't defend.
I haven't seen anyone completely backing off and letting him go, was more like rivals being unable to put up a fight.
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Old 11 May 2021, 12:11 (Ref:4051036)   #205
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Nah he's been dealt plenty of harsh decisions, like that great overtake right at the end of a race that got him 1st but was then reversed by the stewards -- was it 2017? I've forgotten.
It was at Silverstone that he passed Colin for third, then lost it post race for exceeding track limits and as it was his third strike, he was sent to the back for the next race, so they rightly changed the rules, so that track limit offences wouldn’t count as a strike
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Old 11 May 2021, 12:33 (Ref:4051048)   #206
hen henths
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hen henths should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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It was at Silverstone that he passed Colin for third, then lost it post race for exceeding track limits and as it was his third strike, he was sent to the back for the next race, so they rightly changed the rules, so that track limit offences wouldn’t count as a strike
That sounds like it. I probably misremembered.
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Old 11 May 2021, 13:10 (Ref:4051054)   #207
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3marinadrive should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Think the little fella in the #24 had a damn good try...on slicks in the rain in race three he still came back at him...once into Church and on the brakes into the Club Chicane...and of course last year at Croft. Both Ash & Jake are BRDC 'Superstars' - the only BTCC drivers on the programme....I think we will seem some proper battles with these two this year. All year in fact
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Old 11 May 2021, 13:13 (Ref:4051057)   #208
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billy bleach should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridbilly bleach should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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Think the little fella in the #24 had a damn good try...on slicks in the rain in race three he still came back at him...once into Church and on the brakes into the Club Chicane...and of course last year at Croft. Both Ash & Jake are BRDC 'Superstars' - the only BTCC drivers on the programme....I think we will seem some proper battles with these two this year. All year in fact
Tempered with mutual respect it seems
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Old 11 May 2021, 13:16 (Ref:4051060)   #209
hen henths
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hen henths should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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I think we will seem some proper battles with these two this year. All year in fact
I can't wait. More than a month until Snett!
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Old 11 May 2021, 14:10 (Ref:4051069)   #210
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Matt K should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridMatt K should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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I can't wait. More than a month until Snett!
Too long isn't it?

A title fight between Ash and Jake would be awesome btw! Somehow I start losing my confidence that Turks is the favourite this year but maybe it's too premature!
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Old 11 May 2021, 14:35 (Ref:4051073)   #211
hen henths
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Somehow I start losing my confidence that Turks is the favourite this year but maybe it's too premature!
I know what you mean but I have to keep reminding myself that the race 1 penalty set Turks back and he'll be stronger on other circuits in the dry. On the other hand I'm sure Shedden and even JP may chip away at his points a lot more this year so it doesn't feel like another year where the Beamers will be miles ahead. I guess it's all down to what Mr Gow does with the boost.

What do we think about the return to 75 kilos? I personally liked it better with the lower ballast I think, and they could ditch the soft tyre while they're at it!
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Old 11 May 2021, 15:13 (Ref:4051081)   #212
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Overboost should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridOverboost should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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How much is Neate paying for his drive? Perhaps he’s paying over the odds of what anyone else was or is willing to pay and is in effect subsidising Sam Osborne.
About £600k per season and it was a 2 year deal. Don't forget Pete Osborne's bank account will have taken a big hit buying the team. Finances still have to stack up
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Old 11 May 2021, 15:28 (Ref:4051083)   #213
Matt K
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Matt K should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridMatt K should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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I know what you mean but I have to keep reminding myself that the race 1 penalty set Turks back and he'll be stronger on other circuits in the dry. On the other hand I'm sure Shedden and even JP may chip away at his points a lot more this year so it doesn't feel like another year where the Beamers will be miles ahead. I guess it's all down to what Mr Gow does with the boost.

What do we think about the return to 75 kilos? I personally liked it better with the lower ballast I think, and they could ditch the soft tyre while they're at it!
You're right although it's a bit worrying they still haven't come to terms with their wet weather setup.

Regarding your prediction it won't be 'another year' of BMW's dominance - it won't be as the last time they dominated was in the middle of 2019. Later on Gow did his 'boost magic' and BMWs were never as strong again - which IMO is sad as they've clearly made a fantastic job on the car and were pegged back for the level playing field sake. Anyway, last year was a bit tough for Colin at times (ofc as for title candidate's standards!) and I believe this year may be similar.

I'm not a fan of bigger weights either.
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Old 11 May 2021, 16:13 (Ref:4051093)   #214
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I’m not a fan of the bigger weights either, but at least Cookie managed to win R2 with 75kg, although that was helped by Dan Cam holding station behind him
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Old 11 May 2021, 16:45 (Ref:4051102)   #215
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On the other hand I'm sure Shedden and even JP may chip away at his points a lot more this year so it doesn't feel like another year where the Beamers will be miles ahead.
tell you what, i reckon plato's going to be more likely to come close than shedden. it was if he'd barely been away on sunday.

probably sounds a bit odd but i'm not so excited about the championship as i am about the races. which i guess is the way round the btcc gods mean it to be, right up until the last 2 events
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Old 11 May 2021, 18:11 (Ref:4051114)   #216
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Think the little fella in the #24 had a damn good try...on slicks in the rain in race three he still came back at him...once into Church and on the brakes into the Club Chicane...and of course last year at Croft. Both Ash & Jake are BRDC 'Superstars' - the only BTCC drivers on the programme....I think we will seem some proper battles with these two this year. All year in fact
Absolute star. I said preseason it would be Sheds/ Turks or Ash who wins it. Going on Sunday's performance Jake is on that list in my head now too. As Cookie has to be too. BTC looked like a totally different team to last years so near but so far.

I'm now wondering if my wager has cursed Sheds... hopefully not!!!
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Old 11 May 2021, 18:49 (Ref:4051122)   #217
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Craner Curves should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridCraner Curves should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridCraner Curves should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridCraner Curves should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
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Absolute star. I said preseason it would be Sheds/ Turks or Ash who wins it. Going on Sunday's performance Jake is on that list in my head now too. As Cookie has to be too. BTC looked like a totally different team to last years so near but so far.

I'm now wondering if my wager has cursed Sheds... hopefully not!!!
Very interesting to hear Dan Cammish say the other Honda is quite different to the Dynamics car. For the better it seems.
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Old 11 May 2021, 20:51 (Ref:4051141)   #218
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Very interesting to hear Dan Cammish say the other Honda is quite different to the Dynamics car. For the better it seems.
Where did he say that?
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Old 11 May 2021, 21:34 (Ref:4051147)   #219
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Where did he say that?
Tim Harvey mentioned it during qualifying, one engine was better at the top end, one was better bottom end - cant remember which way round tho
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Old 11 May 2021, 21:39 (Ref:4051149)   #220
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Craner Curves should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridCraner Curves should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridCraner Curves should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridCraner Curves should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
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Where did he say that?
I think it was on the BTCCFacebook with Steve Rider.
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Old 12 May 2021, 06:11 (Ref:4051180)   #221
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About £600k per season and it was a 2 year deal. Don't forget Pete Osborne's bank account will have taken a big hit buying the team. Finances still have to stack up
Really? That is a staggering amount to pay out year on year. I can't believe that Jake is bringing £600k to sit in the sister MB car or there is any real commercial sponsorship of that level outside of the WSR BMW's. Or many other drivers are paying that surely?
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Old 12 May 2021, 08:03 (Ref:4051188)   #222
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Really? That is a staggering amount to pay out year on year. I can't believe that Jake is bringing £600k to sit in the sister MB car or there is any real commercial sponsorship of that level outside of the WSR BMW's. Or many other drivers are paying that surely?
As in most teams the deals vary quite a lot. MB sponsors in effect subsidise a lot of Jake's ride, so he doesn't have to bring anything like the same as Neate. A lot of the teams have a 'subsidised' drive and the rest pay a fair amount for their ride & in some cases that goes towards running a less well funded driver in the other car, who may (or may not ) be capable or likely to get better results.
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Old 12 May 2021, 08:09 (Ref:4051191)   #223
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Really? That is a staggering amount to pay out year on year. I can't believe that Jake is bringing £600k to sit in the sister MB car or there is any real commercial sponsorship of that level outside of the WSR BMW's. Or many other drivers are paying that surely?
Jake’s definitely not paying that sort of money, he’s got plenty of loyal sponsors BUT certainly not tapped into that sort of funding.

There is quite a range of prices for a seat ranging from as low as £150k (might be higher now) right up to £500-600k. Not many around who can afford the later!
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Old 12 May 2021, 09:29 (Ref:4051213)   #224
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Dan Cam is working on a return for 2022. Really hope it happens, just a shame he couldn't stay longer this year

https://www.motorsport.com/btcc/news...-2022/6506986/
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Old 12 May 2021, 15:25 (Ref:4051270)   #225
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Matt K should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridMatt K should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Fingers crossed. Maybe a full-time ride with BTC?
Anyway, this silences all the rumours he may be back full-time this season, which is sad yet totally expected.
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