[WEC] New rules. New manufacturers. The 2021 and beyond positivity thread!

[Adam43]

I didn’t say you did! I just said that I think it is unlikely.

I am not disagreeing with what you said. Why are you still arguing?

You’ve turned this into a someone has to be right and someone has to be wrong on the internet.

[Pandamasque]

Originally Posted by Adam43

Why are you still arguing?

Because I erroneously assumed that you started an argument about a point that I made (which you quoted).

My bad. It turns out you argued about a point I didn't make. For some reason. Okay, I guess.

[Adam43]

Give it a rest.

At no point was I arguing anything. Not everyone on the internet is looking for a fight.
Please bear that in mind in your future posting.

We all move on now…

[hoffman66]

To the people talking about Ginetta

Seriously the bloke is hugely rich, his factory is a sea of cars aswell as numerous other very profitable businesses, it was not money really, maybe he wanted a sponsor to step in sure, but they didn't do enough to warrant that and knew the rules were changing, fair do's

[Adam43]

Yes. As I said when they last didn’t show up. They were sensible to not throw good money after bad. Which is why the bloke remains hugely rich.

But, I’ll wait till they are on the grid to believe that they have got everything in place. No matter what they say beforehand. The soap opera last time was just a laugh.

I am incredibly sorry for giving the impression of more than that. And for my frustration in how many times I had to say so and the disruption to the thread that this caused.

[broadrun96]

I'm hoping with the proposed success of LMDh they get a chance with a P2 base, even if it needs a bop test to bring it in line, plus or minus. Especially as the rules will do that to the LMDh as entered on the track.

Although if VAG teams all use the same chassis that gives everyone else plenty of Dallara, Oreca and Ligier options.

Hoping the conversation can continue but with the positive outlook we've had for a new class and possibly multiple new options for pro and Pro-Am teams in multiple series

[Adam43]

Balancing all this is difficult, but the ACO have done alright so far which is a positive and bodes well. The three cars are 1.3s (ish) apart round Portimao. Not bad, especially as the one that is 1.3s is their first race in the series and clearly coming to grips with things like tyres that weekend.

So hyper non hybrid and hyper hybrid and old LMP1 all needed up in the same ballpark. So hopefully the other options will be all suitable and competitive.

[Pandamasque]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

Although if VAG teams all use the same chassis that gives everyone else plenty of Dallara, Oreca and Ligier options.

Interestingly, Dallara is said to be linked with 2 OEMs, Oreca's with Acura/Honda, Multimatic is with VAG, but as far as Ligier is concerned I don't think I've even heard rumours of them being linked to an LMDh project. And not that many prospective OEMs outside VAG remain: McLaren and Alpine. We may well end up with just 3 chassis and maybe also with just 3 LMP2 chassis again.

[Adam43]

I’ll believe McLaren when I see it too. Are they having another evaluation of an LM program?
And I will happily be wrong on that. They are so suited to doing it.

[chernaudi]

Last I heard, Ligier were tied to Peugeot's LMH program.

[canaglia]

ligier is working with peugeot for LMH aero development.
I'm not surprised nobody is going after ligier... about dallara and riley/multimatic, even if their lmp2 revealed to be crappy, their carbon tubs worked however good as platforms for GM and mazda/multimatic dpi, with both cars competitive and able to win many races... ligier lmp2 is crap and nissan dpi was just ligier lmp2 + a carbon panel over the nose + all kind of engine placing and overheating issues...

I never trusted in mclaren dpi/lmdh, if ever alpine will do lmdh they would likely stick on oreca chassis

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by canaglia

I never trusted in mclaren dpi/lmdh,

I got there eventually. It got a bit cry wolf. So many articles of them considering it, but never any further.

Ultimately they are being sensible, they are involved in a lot of Motorsport already and are wary of over stretching themselves. They, if they ever do go for it, will make sure it is on a very sound footing. I bet I’ll be laughing at the article saying they are considering it and then they’ll be on the grid!

It seems a good fit to me, but they’ve evaluated it enough to know

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by chunterer

You mean a new GT1 class as the hypercar/LMDH was supposed to be when announced?

Toyota already made the road going car -- exactly as required if the rules were more like GT1. It still looks like a prototype, because that's the fastest way, just as the Toyota GT-One in period look liked a prototype.

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by hondafan37

6 in line for BMW, I do not understand why, but the 6 in line always had better sound than the V6.

I am not sure that inline-six has better sound than 60-degree V6.

Unfortunately, many racing V6s are 90-degrees as they are made out of V8s -- this is why they sound bad.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

I am not sure that inline-six has better sound than 60-degree V6.

The official order is V12, straight 6, V8, flat 6, …

[joeb]

In keeping with the thread title, I am positively confused on the basis for the LMDH category. I understand they will be based off of a P2 tub, but is this one of the current generation cars, or the next gen P2 chassis? Because I still don't know what a next gen P2 car is. I have seen no announcements about the future of the class, but thought it was due for a refresh in 2022 or 2023.

[Pandamasque]

It's next gen.

Originally Posted by joeb

Because I still don't know what a next gen P2 car is.

The real question is, does ACO know? The thing seems to be way on the back burner. I doubt we'll see one of those P2 cars before 2024, if ever.
What if by 2024 LMDh just replaces LMP2 in ELMS and AsLMS? Apparently, some OEMs would like to see that happen.

Originally Posted by canaglia

I never trusted in mclaren dpi/lmdh, if ever alpine will do lmdh they would likely stick on oreca chassis

Well, I guess they found that new electric SUV rally sprint series more relevant to the brand
https://racer.com/2021/06/11/mclaren...eme-e-program/

[Adam43]

Why not leave it on the back burner? What is the need for a new gen of P2 at the moment?
Just to help increase the gap to the top class? Surely needs to be more than that. And there are some that quite like the current gap.

The last couple of years are a reason to at least delay.

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by Pandamasque

Well, I guess they found that new electric SUV rally sprint series more relevant to the brand
https://racer.com/2021/06/11/mclaren...eme-e-program/

How disinterested for extreme E, have however admit that is a good series to promote a brand... infact mclaren aims to go on full electric in near future for their road cars.
Next gen lmp2 carbon tubs should be similiar to the actual ones, maybe made a bit longer to let lmdh have the same wheelbase of LMH.

[Mike E]

No Bentley LMDh

http://www.dailysportscar.com/2021/0...a-drivers.html

[S griffin]

Not surprised, I don't think Le Mans is top of Bentley's priority list atm

[canaglia]

like mclaren, bentley is supposed to go full electric in near future so it fits much more in FE than lmdh... and also because, honestly... after porsche, audi and maybe lamborghini sharing same platform, a fourth rebadge of the same car would be ridiculous

[Pandamasque]

I get the sense that the number of chassis produced is becoming the limiting factor. Not sure if it's due to limitation of the chassis supplier or the funding allocated by VAG to ensure there's adequate support for all cars including privateers.

And yet, that doesn't seem to be the problem for Lamborghini, who are now rumoured to be getting in as early as 2023.
But as far as investment is concerned, I can't help but wonder if a VAG LMDh with a Bentley or Lamborghini badge would be a lot more attractive to collectors than the same car with Audi stickers. Most of those who appreciate Audi's Le Mans heritage will likely also be aware of Audi's specific technological advancements behind those triumphs, and their lack in the new generic VAG prototype. All things being equal, the Bentley-badged car would be a hit with privateers.

On a different note. I wonder how much of the Lola design will be retained in the new car (if chassis rules are even similar to the current P2). If you look at Lola B12 and the current Multimatic/Mazda, look at the roof, the fenders, the nosecone (hidden in a Mazda) you'll see what I'm talking about. This also explains how Multimatic is the most handsome of the current P2 chassis.

[canaglia]

multimatic and haas bought most of lola assets and licenses after the 2012 bankrupt, no surprise multimatic got a huge step forward of know how and knowledge about composites technologies...
infact multimatic was hired by ford and aston martin to design and produce ford gt and amr valkirye carbon tubs, not to mention many other collaborations.
Realistically I don't think VW/porsche would ask them to produce something like 10 tubs a year

[Pandamasque]

They'll need 8 tubs in year one just to put a couple of works cars for Audi and Porsche in IMSA and WEC. And that's without any spare tubs or customer cars, let alone Lamborghinis.