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Old 26 Sep 2021, 15:55 (Ref:4075667)   #541
truebeliever
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truebeliever should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridtruebeliever should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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Originally Posted by Napolis View Post
We have been transparent, public, and clear about our thoughts on the fairness of the BOP in the Hypercar class.
We designed, engineered, and built a LMH that met the LMH homologation requirements and performed better than the desired/predicted Le Mans lap time of 3:30.
We feel that the BOP between us and Alpine was fair, resulted in great racing and left an acceptable gap to the P2's. We also feel that the BOP of the Toyota's was unfair as evidenced by the very excessive gap to Alpine and us during the Hyperpole and the fact that even though both Toyota's had serious problems during the race they were still able to beat both Alpine and us by a large margin.
We are in cordial communication with the WEC and The ACO to address this issue and are hopeful that we can reach a solution, but we have no interest in participating in a perpetual Toyota Victory Parade and showing up to race when we don't have a fair chance to win.
CORRECT my friend!
You should remember the old adage......''He who pays the piper, calls the tune.''
So expecting anything to change in regards the balance of performance tipped in Toyota's favor, to change, would be wishful thinking.
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Old 26 Sep 2021, 16:40 (Ref:4075676)   #542
Napolis
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Originally Posted by truebeliever View Post
CORRECT my friend!
You should remember the old adage......''He who pays the piper, calls the tune.''
So expecting anything to change in regards the balance of performance tipped in Toyota's favor, to change, would be wishful thinking.
Not at all. There are a lot of things happening. I think it's very possible we'll get a fair BOP.
If we do great if not no problem as we have a lot of other mountains to climb.
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Old 26 Sep 2021, 17:57 (Ref:4075695)   #543
tux
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tux should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridtux should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridtux should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
As amazing a job as you have done i still don't believe that privateer teams will be able to compete with the likes of Toyota, they have the people, facilities and money. Not only that but if Toyota are spending €20m on their team do you really think that they & ACO are going to let them be beat?
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Old 26 Sep 2021, 18:55 (Ref:4075718)   #544
Napolis
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Originally Posted by tux View Post
As amazing a job as you have done i still don't believe that privateer teams will be able to compete with the likes of Toyota, they have the people, facilities and money. Not only that but if Toyota are spending €20m on their team do you really think that they & ACO are going to let them be beat?
I do but as I said if they don't Ciao.
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Old 26 Sep 2021, 19:19 (Ref:4075726)   #545
canaglia
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canaglia should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridcanaglia should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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Originally Posted by tux View Post
As amazing a job as you have done i still don't believe that privateer teams will be able to compete with the likes of Toyota, they have the people, facilities and money. Not only that but if Toyota are spending €20m on their team do you really think that they & ACO are going to let them be beat?

Budget, facilities and people aside, to me toyota real power is how can easily influence present and future ACO decisions...
but anyway, I can understand Glickenhaus point of view, me too at his place would make pressure to have a better treatment, none is happy to spend lot of money to join someone else's parade
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Old 27 Sep 2021, 08:11 (Ref:4075825)   #546
greenmachinets040
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Originally Posted by Napolis View Post
There is more than enough data to make a fair BOP.
The only structural problem that has to change is when AWD is allowed.
AWD should only be allowed when the track is dry not when AWD cars can run on slicks on a wet track.
Without this change RWD cars including Alpine, us and LMDh have no chance.
The rest is simple tweaking.
I do not want to be discrespectful, but cmon, why did Glickenhaus not built a Hybrid LMH car? Did you think that ACO would eliminate the advantages of AWD of the Toyotas? Was Toyota fool to build an AWD car when one could also win with a RWD car by persuading the ACO to ban AWD for the Hybrid LMHs?

On the other hand, MJ per stint and allowed KW is equalled out. What else do you want?

AWD has to bring advantage and so it should be.
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Old 27 Sep 2021, 14:25 (Ref:4075915)   #547
Napolis
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Originally Posted by greenmachinets040 View Post
I do not want to be discrespectful, but cmon, why did Glickenhaus not built a Hybrid LMH car? Did you think that ACO would eliminate the advantages of AWD of the Toyotas? Was Toyota fool to build an AWD car when one could also win with a RWD car by persuading the ACO to ban AWD for the Hybrid LMHs?

On the other hand, MJ per stint and allowed KW is equalled out. What else do you want?

AWD has to bring advantage and so it should be.
The ACO clearly stated that this would be a BOP class and all
cars would be treated equally. Ask your question to Porsche and many others who
are building RWD Le Mans cars.
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Old 27 Sep 2021, 18:48 (Ref:4075974)   #548
canaglia
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canaglia should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridcanaglia should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
guess that's the big problem, ACO said that HYP was going to be a bop class, toyota disagreed.
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Old 28 Sep 2021, 00:22 (Ref:4076021)   #549
Napolis
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Originally Posted by canaglia View Post
guess that's the big problem, ACO said that HYP was going to be a bop class, toyota disagreed.
It's going to be a fair BOP class.
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Old 28 Sep 2021, 08:39 (Ref:4076058)   #550
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GingerPixel should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridGingerPixel should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I think we all appreciate that there are a lot of factors at play here, but it's easy to see how a new privateer team who we have all been very excited by threatening to take their ball home after half a season when the only real opposition is a giant in the category leaves a slightly sour taste.

Obviously it's different from a team owners point of view, but for the spectator I think we'd all rather see you finishing second than not finishing (or starting) at all.

edit: I should add that we all want a fair class too, and that I'm sure we all want to see the Glick around for years to come when the competition is more varied

Last edited by GingerPixel; 28 Sep 2021 at 08:49.
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Old 28 Sep 2021, 08:49 (Ref:4076059)   #551
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Personally, I am very happy that we will have AWD hybrids, RWD hybrids and RWD non-hybrids in the same class, with no restiction on engine size or layout. The ACO and IMSA will find a way to balance them , like they did with EoT for a V6 turbo diesel-flywheel hybrid, a V8 petrol-capacitor hybrid and a V4 turbo petrol ERS/KERS-hybrid.
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Old 28 Sep 2021, 09:37 (Ref:4076067)   #552
canaglia
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Personally, I am very happy that we will have AWD hybrids, RWD hybrids and RWD non-hybrids in the same class, with no restiction on engine size or layout. The ACO and IMSA will find a way to balance them , like they did with EoT for a V6 turbo diesel-flywheel hybrid, a V8 petrol-capacitor hybrid and a V4 turbo petrol ERS/KERS-hybrid.

Not the best comparison to me considering lmp1-h was heavily focused on developing best technologies for hybrid and fuel efficiency relying on a semi-fixed eot, while HYP main "balancing" factor is only the overall energy deployed no matter how or where this energy comes from.
Anyway this is just the prologue of 2023-2024 struggles when audi, porsche, cadillac and bmw will shout at ACO for HYP-lmdh bop changes
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Old 28 Sep 2021, 11:27 (Ref:4076074)   #553
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Originally Posted by canaglia View Post
Anyway this is just the prologue of 2023-2024 struggles when audi, porsche, cadillac and bmw will shout at ACO for HYP-lmdh bop changes
I suspect that this is true, however the ACO will have no one to blame but themselves.

Personally I have little desire to see BOP in prototype racing, but that's just the opinion of an old fart.
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Old 28 Sep 2021, 12:38 (Ref:4076086)   #554
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I don't like seeing BOP in prototype racing either, especially WEC which is supposed to be top of the sportscar ladder. Have tight rules by all means, but don't punish those successful in what is supposed to be the pinnacle of sportscar racing
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Old 28 Sep 2021, 15:45 (Ref:4076132)   #555
canaglia
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I'm not against bop in prototypes, it's about how is used and how or if it can realistically balance car performances. In IMSA at example bop works really well for dpi cars, mazda dpi is usually lighter than cadillac and acura, letting the weight cut compensate the lack of torque.
But WEC bop aims to balance cars conceptually too different:


- a work hybrid hypercar with a clear AWD advantage

- an ICE only RWD hypercar that makes power its strong point

- a less powerful but lighter and more aero performant grandfathered lmp1 that can't even receive a larger fuel tank


to this, from 2023 add also a large number of lmdh cars that before being "bopped" with hypercars would need an internal sub-class bop first.
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