Unfulfilled talents - those who never achieved potential?

[Nononsensecapeesh]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Sorry if i'm being thick here. Are you sayimg anyone on a that webpage could qualify as an unfulfilled talent-the purpose of this thread?

Oh for heaven's sake! Some of those guys had real potential! Just look at Antonio Pizzonia for instance!

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by Nononsensecapeesh

Oh for heaven's sake! Some of those guys had real potential! Just look at Antonio Pizzonia for instance!

What guys? Are you basing your points purely on drivers included in a site called Rejects?

[Nononsensecapeesh]

Originally Posted by chunterer

What guys? Are you basing your points purely on drivers included in a site called Rejects?

I refuse to continue this conversation.

Nico Hulkenberg

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Sorry if i'm being thick here. Are you sayimg anyone on a that webpage could qualify as an unfulfilled talent-the purpose of this thread?

I'm with chunterer on this one. There is a big difference between being an unfulfilled talent (the title of the thread) and being mentioned on a site dedicated to 'heroic failures'.

IMO - an unfulfilled talent is one that could have achieved much more than they did having raced in a certain series. Not a random test on a certain day.
Otherwise we're down to Richard Hammond being an unfulfilled talent - he did drive an F1 car once:


[IMG]https://miro.medium.com/max/1400/0*DqZnLWO3ZLp0N9em[/IMG]
'Hammond raced Fernando Alonso’s F1 car around Silverstone'

[Nononsensecapeesh]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

I'm with chunterer on this one. There is a big difference between being an unfulfilled talent (the title of the thread) and being mentioned on a site dedicated to 'heroic failures'.

IMO - an unfulfilled talent is one that could have achieved much more than they did having raced in a certain series. Not a random test on a certain day.
Otherwise we're down to Richard Hammond being an unfulfilled talent - he did drive an F1 car once:


[IMG]https://miro.medium.com/max/1400/0*DqZnLWO3ZLp0N9em[/IMG]
'Hammond raced Fernando Alonso’s F1 car around Silverstone'

Whatever, I don't regard the drivers on F1/GP Rejects as failures (heroic or otherwise) just because some website portrays them as such, otherwise I shall say no more on the matter.

What about the late Anthoine Hubert?

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Nononsensecapeesh

Whatever, I don't regard the drivers on F1/GP Rejects as failures (heroic or otherwise) just because some website portrays them as such,

Interesting - so just to put out an example, if anyone with a profile on the site qualifies as an unfulfilled talent - what do you think Ken Richardson's talent should have achieved in F1?

[Nononsensecapeesh]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Interesting - so just to put out an example, if anyone with a profile on the site qualifies as an unfulfilled talent - what do you think Ken Richardson's talent should have achieved in F1?

I refuse to dignify that with an answer because I have chosen to drop the subject.

I think this whole thread is every bit as guilty of bashing these so-called "unfulfilled talents" as F1/GP Rejects and I am going to steer clear of it from now on because I am sick to the teeth of it.

Romain Grosjean.

[chunterer]

The thread is anything but 'bashing'!!

It was devised as an open discussion about talented drivers whose ability promised more than their results or career yielded. There are many examples of this and many more reasons why this would happened to them.

Please don't take offence, contributors are permitted to challenge opinion and comments as much as posting them, as long as they are relevant or in the spirit intended,

[Nononsensecapeesh]

Originally Posted by chunterer

The thread is anything but 'bashing'!!

It was devised as an open discussion about talented drivers whose ability promised more than their results or career yielded. There are many examples of this and many more reasons why this would happened to them.

Please don't take offence, contributors are permitted to challenge opinion and comments as much as posting them, as long as they are relevant or in the spirit intended,

Well I am sorry but it's too late, I am offended and that's that, I have tried to explain my reasons for my comments and still you continue to get at me no matter how much you may think otherwise. Just leave me alone!

Tom Ingram in the BTCC at the rate he's going.

Don't bother trying to reason with me any further because your attempts to so will be completely ignored.
I am officially not going to make any further comments on this thread.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Nononsensecapeesh

Tom Ingram in the BTCC at the rate he's going.

Now there is a driver who currently seems like an unfulfilled talent.
Likewise Cammish (in BTCC).

[S griffin]

Yes I do wonder if Tingram is ever gonna get that BTCC title. Then again it took Matt Neal 15 years to win the title and then of course he won another one after that. Granted it took Matt longer than Tom to get into a top car, but still

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Yes I do wonder if Tingram is ever gonna get that BTCC title. Then again it took Matt Neal 15 years to win the title and then of course he won another one after that. Granted it took Matt longer than Tom to get into a top car, but still

I think Neal's time to become champion is an indication of previous BTCC constructs, rather than him taking time to realise his potential.
Of the last 10 championships - the champion has taken 8yrs or less to get their first title. Obviously a title in the next 2-3 yrs and Ingram would no longer be considered unfulfilled talent.

However - I think we are drifting off topic a bit as Ingram is still driving - I think the thread could look at many drivers still driving in a series. In terms of 'Motorsport History', is it better to only consider drivers who have finished their career in a particular series?

[chunterer]

The original idea of the thread was to discuss top liners in the making whom it didn't work out for. Touring cars never really entered the main thought process although it has come up from time to time.

[AnonymityRules]

Originally Posted by chunterer

The original idea of the thread was to discuss top liners in the making whom it didn't work out for. Touring cars never really entered the main thought process although it has come up from time to time.

Depends what series such drivers competed in and how they performed in each series.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by AnonymityRules

Depends what series such drivers competed in and how they performed in each series.

Not sure I follow, can you expand a little?

[AnonymityRules]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Not sure I follow, can you expand a little?

Well, by unfulfilled talents, what if one comes to consider a driver who shone in one particular series but not so much in another or does unfulfilled talents refer solely to drivers whose careers showed promise but went absolutely nowhere?

[crmalcolm]

Looking at the OP - it refers to Formula drivers who never achieved their potential in F1.

Originally Posted by chunterer

racers who never achieved the greatness that they looked destined to in lower formulae.

Although if the conversation has moved outside of this, then fair enough I guess?

[AnonymityRules]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Looking at the OP - it refers to Formula drivers who never achieved their potential in F1.



Although if the conversation has moved outside of this, then fair enough I guess?

What I'm trying to say is what if drivers didn't succeed in F1 but did succeed in another form of motor racing? Are they still unfulfilled talents then?

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by AnonymityRules

What I'm trying to say is what if drivers didn't succeed in F1 but did succeed in another form of motor racing? Are they still unfulfilled talents then?

As a driver of formulae cars, in the context of this thread, I would say yes.

[AnonymityRules]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

As a driver of formulae cars, in the context of this thread, I would say yes.

Well then what about Takuma Sato? From one-time F1 podium finisher to the first Japanese Indy 500 Winner and he's achieved that twice.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by AnonymityRules

Well then what about Takuma Sato? From one-time F1 podium finisher to the first Japanese Indy 500 Winner and he's achieved that twice.

I would say - as a driver of formulae cars, he is a great example of an unfulfilled talent.

3rd then a 1st in British F3, then a F1 career that never really got going.
Has success when he moved away from formulae driving, but unfulfilled in F1.

[AnonymityRules]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

I would say - as a driver of formulae cars, he is a great example of an unfulfilled talent.

3rd then a 1st in British F3, then a F1 career that never really got going.
Has success when he moved away from formulae driving, but unfulfilled in F1.

By that logic, Juan Pablo Montoya, Alex Zanardi, Eddie Cheever, Mark Blundell (3 podiums in F1, 3 wins in CART), Sebastien Bourdais.

Gabriele Tarquini and Joachim Winkelhock in touring cars.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by AnonymityRules

By that logic, Juan Pablo Montoya, Alex Zanardi, Eddie Cheever, Mark Blundell (3 podiums in F1, 3 wins in CART), Sebastien Bourdais.

Gabriele Tarquini and Joachim Winkelhock in touring cars.

Yes.

[AnonymityRules]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Yes.

Thank you.

[E.B]

How about Jackie Lewis, the UK born Welsh man (Welsh parents) who won races in F3 (bought an ex Ivor Bueb F3 car and came 4th on debut at Mallory) 13 F3 starts, 3 wins and a further 4 podiums. He then moved up to F2 and won the UK F2 championship. He also won a bit in Europe against some fancy names. (His F2 debut was at Montlhéry, and he won)
He then went on to enter F1 as a privateer. Only started 9 Championship GPs, but managed to beat the likes of Tony Brooks (and was the first privateer home in 4th) at the 1961 Italian GP (which incorporated the banked section that year). Beaten only by the works cars of Phil Hill, Gurney and McLaren.
Ran in 1962, and had the ambition to do a McLaren/Brabham and build his own Welsh GP car, but after a reliability affected poor year in a Cooper BRM in 1962, Jackie walked away from Motor Racing to become a Sheep farmer (and breeding Arab horses) near Llandovery in North Wales. He did that for 40 years before returning to Stroud, his birthplace.
Now 85 he is still alive, living in Stroud, and most of his friends know nothing of his motor racing exploits.

Interesting article from a few years ago: https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/a...rief-encounter

Also this: https://www.historicracing.com/drive...?driverID=1376

Or this account by a Stroud journo who by chance discovered someone from Stroud had been in F1, tracked him down and interviewed him.
https://motorsportsartist.wordpress....red-in-stroud/

Apologies if his name has been mentioned previously in the thread. Searching the forum for Jackie Lewis just comes up with pages of another bloke called Lewis....