Home  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides Veloce Books  
Related Sites: Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Saloon & Sportscar Racing > Sportscar & GT Racing > ACO Regulated Series

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10 Jun 2022, 12:49 (Ref:4113945)   #1
Ferrari333SP
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
United States
Minnesota
Posts: 1,695
Ferrari333SP has a real shot at the podium!Ferrari333SP has a real shot at the podium!Ferrari333SP has a real shot at the podium!Ferrari333SP has a real shot at the podium!
Chef GT3: ACO style

I simply don't get these new GT3 rules for 2024 - what is their reasoning for not simply just using the GT3 cars as is? Wouldn't that actually be the cheapest way forward?

https://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/...lass-for-2024/
Ferrari333SP is offline  
__________________
“And the sea will grant each man new hope . . . his sleep brings dreams of home.” - Christopher Columbus
Quote
Old 10 Jun 2022, 13:01 (Ref:4113950)   #2
broadrun96
Veteran
 
broadrun96's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
United States
Posts: 11,215
broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferrari333SP View Post
I simply don't get these new GT3 rules for 2024 - what is their reasoning for not simply just using the GT3 cars as is? Wouldn't that actually be the cheapest way forward?

https://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/...lass-for-2024/
Because ACO?? That's all I can think of, but yeah why make the teams have to source new unique aero only body kits? Unless the ACO is making them in house and more money coming in

Plus who is going to take the hit to develop them at the 50-100k euro price cap. Just gonna guess that will barely cover the manufacturing costs never mind recoup testing and development

Last edited by broadrun96; 10 Jun 2022 at 13:07.
broadrun96 is offline  
Quote
Old 10 Jun 2022, 13:05 (Ref:4113953)   #3
canaglia
Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,920
canaglia should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridcanaglia should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
it reminds me the GT3+ ratel planned to introduce in late 2011 to replace GT1...
canaglia is offline  
Quote
Old 10 Jun 2022, 13:08 (Ref:4113954)   #4
broadrun96
Veteran
 
broadrun96's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
United States
Posts: 11,215
broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Quote:
Originally Posted by canaglia View Post
it reminds me the GT3+ ratel planned to introduce in late 2011 to replace GT1...
GT3+ exterior only, GT3+ wanted engine and other upgrades too. This is just bodywork for aero tuning it seems
broadrun96 is offline  
Quote
Old 10 Jun 2022, 13:31 (Ref:4113960)   #5
tomcug
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2022
Posts: 603
tomcug should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
This makes no sense. Most importantly, there won't be a Pro category anymore or at least I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere. So the ACO and FIA want manufacturers wanting to race to build a hypercar. But since not all of them are interest in prototype racing, after 2022 they can either go to IMSA or stop racing at all. Great


About the GT3 "Premium" thing, I guess they're aiming at gentlemen drivers who want to race in "cooler" looking GT3 cars.
tomcug is offline  
Quote
Old 10 Jun 2022, 13:56 (Ref:4113975)   #6
broadrun96
Veteran
 
broadrun96's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
United States
Posts: 11,215
broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!
And Porsche has already publicly asked why?

https://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/...eally-need-it/
broadrun96 is offline  
Quote
Old 10 Jun 2022, 13:57 (Ref:4113976)   #7
canaglia
Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,920
canaglia should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridcanaglia should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomcug View Post
This makes no sense. Most importantly, there won't be a Pro category anymore or at least I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere. So the ACO and FIA want manufacturers wanting to race to build a hypercar. But since not all of them are interest in prototype racing, after 2022 they can either go to IMSA or stop racing at all. Great


About the GT3 "Premium" thing, I guess they're aiming at gentlemen drivers who want to race in "cooler" looking GT3 cars.

As DTM was asking for more powerful GT3 equipped with a different clutch system to let GT3 having standing start without burning clutch, the gt3 manufacturers answer was a big middle finger. I'm wondering if ACO actually asked manufacturers opinion about this...
canaglia is offline  
Quote
Old 10 Jun 2022, 14:01 (Ref:4113980)   #8
broadrun96
Veteran
 
broadrun96's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
United States
Posts: 11,215
broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Quote:
Originally Posted by canaglia View Post
As DTM was asking for more powerful GT3 equipped with a different clutch system to let GT3 having standing start without burning clutch, the gt3 manufacturers answer was a big middle finger. I'm wondering if ACO actually asked manufacturers opinion about this...
It appears again the answer is no, no they did not
broadrun96 is offline  
Quote
Old 10 Jun 2022, 15:13 (Ref:4114016)   #9
Mike E
Veteran
 
Mike E's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location:
Leeds
Posts: 4,342
Mike E will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike E will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike E will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike E will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike E will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike E will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike E will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike E will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike E will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomcug View Post
This makes no sense. Most importantly, there won't be a Pro category anymore or at least I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere. So the ACO and FIA want manufacturers wanting to race to build a hypercar. But since not all of them are interest in prototype racing, after 2022 they can either go to IMSA or stop racing at all. Great


About the GT3 "Premium" thing, I guess they're aiming at gentlemen drivers who want to race in "cooler" looking GT3 cars.
They have dropped the idea of requiring a Hypercar entry to be eligible for a GT entry.
Mike E is offline  
Quote
Old 10 Jun 2022, 17:46 (Ref:4114058)   #10
FIRE
Race Official
Veteran
 
FIRE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Netherlands
Posts: 18,739
FIRE is going for a new world record!FIRE is going for a new world record!FIRE is going for a new world record!FIRE is going for a new world record!FIRE is going for a new world record!FIRE is going for a new world record!FIRE is going for a new world record!
GT3 yes, but GT3 premium doesn't make sense. Not for manufacturers, not for teams, not for spectactors, not for WEC/LM24.
FIRE is offline  
Quote
Old 10 Jun 2022, 17:59 (Ref:4114065)   #11
Mike E
Veteran
 
Mike E's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location:
Leeds
Posts: 4,342
Mike E will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike E will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike E will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike E will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike E will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike E will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike E will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike E will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike E will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Yep, it's nonsense and solves one problem by creating another. We have GT3s racing in the Road to Le Mans races and they seem just fine to me.
Mike E is offline  
Quote
Old 10 Jun 2022, 18:19 (Ref:4114069)   #12
tomcug
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2022
Posts: 603
tomcug should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
"The objective is that we’re totally devoted to lower the costs."
and
"According to FIA Endurance Commission President Richard Mille, the kit, which is targeted to provide a “special look” to each GT3 model"
These two just contradict. If you want to lower the costs, why force teams to spend cash on something that is totally not necessary? Each GT3 car has its unique looks anyway, you can't mistake a Lambo GT3 for a Mercedes GT3.
tomcug is offline  
Quote
Old 10 Jun 2022, 18:34 (Ref:4114073)   #13
canaglia
Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,920
canaglia should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridcanaglia should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike E View Post
Yep, it's nonsense and solves one problem by creating another. We have GT3s racing in the Road to Le Mans races and they seem just fine to me.

In my opinion it doesn't solve problems


1) to me a pro-am only class doesn't make any sense in a "supposed" FIA world championship... is it so bad for ACO to possibily have abt, htp, grasser, schubert with pro lineups?
2) evidently aco ignores that gt3 manufacturers follow an already scheduled production and for them will be quite complicated and unecessarily wasteful to produce limited and bespoke parts for only the few teams involved in WEC



as happened for DTM GT3+, I think that this silly idea of GT3premium will last just a couple of months. Not to mention that bespoke parts = more expensive cars for teams = more expensive seats for am drivers which would be a no sense for a pro-am focused class.
canaglia is offline  
Quote
Old 10 Jun 2022, 19:39 (Ref:4114083)   #14
DistortedSmile
Racer
 
DistortedSmile's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Spain
Posts: 382
DistortedSmile should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridDistortedSmile should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridDistortedSmile should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
'We want to lower costs so let's introduce something that will increase costs.'
Genius!
Just gives us a pro class you morons, I don't want to lose the Corvettes.
DistortedSmile is offline  
Quote
Old 10 Jun 2022, 19:52 (Ref:4114086)   #15
J Jay
Veteran
 
J Jay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
United Kingdom
Manchester
Posts: 6,105
J Jay is going for a new world record!J Jay is going for a new world record!J Jay is going for a new world record!J Jay is going for a new world record!J Jay is going for a new world record!J Jay is going for a new world record!J Jay is going for a new world record!J Jay is going for a new world record!
If it's alright with everybody, I'm just going to put in here what I did in the thread in the general section.

There is no practical justification for this change. It's a token gesture at considerable expense just so the ACO can say the cars are running to their rules.
J Jay is offline  
__________________
BoP is democracy for racing.
Quote
Old 10 Jun 2022, 20:08 (Ref:4114093)   #16
broadrun96
Veteran
 
broadrun96's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
United States
Posts: 11,215
broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Quote:
Originally Posted by DistortedSmile View Post
'We want to lower costs so let's introduce something that will increase costs.'
Genius!
Just gives us a pro class you morons, I don't want to lose the Corvettes.
I think you'll finally see some Vettes on the market now with the full GT3 car. Think they see the market and know the pricing from the rest, and can only support teams not run them this time around. And I could see them selling everyone a LM aero kit with their Vette to spread the costs across all the cars sold
broadrun96 is offline  
Quote
Old 10 Jun 2022, 20:15 (Ref:4114095)   #17
Adam43
14th
1% Club
 
Adam43's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
European Union
New Orleans
Posts: 42,425
Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Quote:
Originally Posted by DistortedSmile View Post
'We want to lower costs so let's introduce something that will increase costs.'
Genius!
Just gives us a pro class you morons, I don't want to lose the Corvettes.
It’s more cost. Not disputing. And probably no point.

But this is a relatively small cost and from what we’ve seen is not a barrier. We have GTE-Am with approximately 600 cars enter this year. People, Bronze people, are so up for racing these kind of cars at Le Mans. The market it there. I don’t think that the ACO are risking anything with this add on.
Adam43 is offline  
__________________
Seriously not taking motorsport too seriously.
Quote
Old 10 Jun 2022, 20:29 (Ref:4114098)   #18
broadrun96
Veteran
 
broadrun96's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
United States
Posts: 11,215
broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam43 View Post
It’s more cost. Not disputing. And probably no point.

But this is a relatively small cost and from what we’ve seen is not a barrier. We have GTE-Am with approximately 600 cars enter this year. People, Bronze people, are so up for racing these kind of cars at Le Mans. The market it there. I don’t think that the ACO are risking anything with this add on.
And how many of the drivers who own/fund the cars own GTE and GT3 versions, or Ferraris and Astons are out there ready to be converted? I'm sure the Ferrari would be pointless as the new car will come online and Aston may not make a kit but Dalla Lana likes an Aston and could find some money if he wanted to.

New (tin foil hat brigade) thought, the ACO knows who is willing to build a kit and the numbers are low. Thus allowing more Hypercar/GTP and LMP2 entries without having everyone cry why not more GT cars. If there are no cars then no one can enter

Of the current GT3 cars who would?

Porsche has already questioned why needed but would if someone funds it
Ferrari has a new car so maybe roll that in to development of it and charge everyone for it
Corvette loves LM and they COULD sell some but the age old, will Vette sell cars
Aston Martin has a GT3 that's around refresh time I think so could build it and has fans who run at LM

Lamborghini has teams who might consider it and could possibly adapt the GT2 body to save costs
Audi seems to be lost in the wilderness and I've seen rumors of the R8 death without replacement so....
MB well LM and MB, and AMG GT is being retired but new car all but assured
McLaren is interesting and again teams who might be interested in funding it
BMW has a new car and a decent following but with the GTP car would they?
Glickenhaus could in theory build one and may have customers who could fund it

Others out there seem to be longer in the tooth and on the way out without replacement
broadrun96 is offline  
Quote
Old 10 Jun 2022, 20:35 (Ref:4114101)   #19
Coach Ep
Veteran
 
Coach Ep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 4,447
Coach Ep has a real shot at the championship!Coach Ep has a real shot at the championship!Coach Ep has a real shot at the championship!Coach Ep has a real shot at the championship!Coach Ep has a real shot at the championship!Coach Ep has a real shot at the championship!
As true as that might be, I think the ACO will come around under pressure from the manufacturers, Porsche is a heavy hitter after all. It'll be interesting to hear from Ferrari, Mercedes AMG and Lamborghini as well (I left Audi out on purpose as it looks like their Customer Sport division might be dwindling down soon).



And besides, both objectives can be reached as a common goal: newer models will be made looking more 'premium' when they get introduced so no need for special kits.
Coach Ep is offline  
Quote
Old 11 Jun 2022, 03:48 (Ref:4114129)   #20
Alan52
Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Australia
Glenmore Park
Posts: 1,634
Alan52 should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridAlan52 should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
This is just a stupid decision.
Reason?ACO wants a unique class so it theoretically can exercise a big amount of control and just so they can say it is unique to WEC.
Makes zero sense.Can you imagine a Pro GT3 class at Le Mans and how fantastic that would be.If you look at the 2017 GT Pro race it was in my opinion the best GT race of all time anywhere.From memory after about 14 hours all cars but one were within around 3 minutes of the lead and of course there was that blockbuster finish.
If the ACO thinks manufacturers will make a special WEC kit particularly if the class is only Am they are deluded.
They cannot force manufacturers with no interest in prototype racing to invest in that simply by not having a Pro class.
Would be interested to know the viewpoint of GT3 promoters like Ratel.
Alan52 is offline  
Quote
Old 11 Jun 2022, 08:01 (Ref:4114149)   #21
canaglia
Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,920
canaglia should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridcanaglia should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan52 View Post
This is just a stupid decision.
Reason?ACO wants a unique class so it theoretically can exercise a big amount of control and just so they can say it is unique to WEC.
Makes zero sense.Can you imagine a Pro GT3 class at Le Mans and how fantastic that would be.If you look at the 2017 GT Pro race it was in my opinion the best GT race of all time anywhere.From memory after about 14 hours all cars but one were within around 3 minutes of the lead and of course there was that blockbuster finish.
If the ACO thinks manufacturers will make a special WEC kit particularly if the class is only Am they are deluded.
They cannot force manufacturers with no interest in prototype racing to invest in that simply by not having a Pro class.
Would be interested to know the viewpoint of GT3 promoters like Ratel.

The single pro-am class I guess it's born as consequence of porsche and ferrari stepping up in hypercar class, leaving basically none in full season gt-pro. I would however kept a pro class because there are tons of gt3 teams that could be interested in a WEC gt-pro program (audi abt, many mercedes and bmw teams, a backed manthey porsche program, redbull/AF ferraris, grasser or emil frey lambo etc...). The gt3 premium is just stupid, ACO clearly ignores how gt3 market works... I'm sure this madness will last less than 2 months.
canaglia is offline  
Quote
Old 11 Jun 2022, 11:15 (Ref:4114180)   #22
Mike E
Veteran
 
Mike E's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location:
Leeds
Posts: 4,342
Mike E will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike E will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike E will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike E will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike E will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike E will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike E will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike E will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike E will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
'ACO president Pierre Fillon explained that there is a desire to create what he dubbed “a premium kit” that would have a negligible effect on performance.'

Ok, buddy.

https://www.motorsport.com/wec/news/...bach/10320145/
Mike E is offline  
Quote
Old 11 Jun 2022, 11:26 (Ref:4114181)   #23
S griffin
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 18,330
S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!
I can see logic in what they are doing, would make it much more simpler by having a more universal GT class

Great article btw
S griffin is online now  
__________________
He who dares wins!
He who hesitates is lost!
Quote
Old 11 Jun 2022, 11:34 (Ref:4114182)   #24
canaglia
Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,920
canaglia should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridcanaglia should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
bespoke silhouette body parts for already homologated GT3 road chassis based cars... why don't mandate also neon lights under the floor to be even more distinctive?
canaglia is offline  
Quote
Old 11 Jun 2022, 11:39 (Ref:4114183)   #25
Mike E
Veteran
 
Mike E's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location:
Leeds
Posts: 4,342
Mike E will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike E will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike E will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike E will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike E will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike E will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike E will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike E will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike E will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Quote:
Originally Posted by canaglia View Post
bespoke silhouette body parts for already homologated GT3 road chassis based cars... why don't mandate also neon lights under the floor to be even more distinctive?
Don't give them ideas
Mike E is offline  
Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Re-introduction of multi-class GT structure in ACO-style racing? Deleted ACO Regulated Series 49 21 Apr 2014 16:46
GT2 replaced by GT3 ..... ACO new idea The Badger ACO Regulated Series 315 4 Sep 2008 16:31
Gt3 Rs & Gt3 R Omega-Red Sportscar & GT Racing 18 27 Nov 2003 18:55
[Memorabilia] ACO (Le Mans) CDRom Aysedasi Armchair Enthusiast 11 7 Dec 2001 17:20
[LM24] Le Mans (ACO) CDRom Aysedasi 24 Heures du Mans 1 24 Oct 2001 22:24


All times are GMT. The time now is 09:50.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2021 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2021-2022 Grant MacDonald. All Rights Reserved.