Are we dying off?

[Derwent]

it does seem this forum page is less well populated than it used to be. The same applies to TNF sadly.
Where has everyone moved to?

[VIVA GT]

The forum in general appears to becoming more quiet lately, probably for a number of reasons, despite the efforts of some to challenge & entertain us.
I'm certainly getting far more done at work nowadays as I'm spending less time on here!

[midgetman]

Forums in general are losing their popularity as the more shouty forms of social media take over. A number of karting ones have died off completely.

That said, I always thought this section was populated by fewer shouty-media people and would prove enduring.

FWIW there's less and less that's not advertising or single-issue posts on the sound bite socials these days too. Maybe we've passed peak discussion forum and the country will subside into insularity again.

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[GORDON STREETER]

Originally Posted by Derwent

it does seem this forum page is less well populated than it used to be. The same applies to TNF sadly.
Where has everyone moved to?

Possibly because motor racing in general is dying off especially at the clubbie end through expense. A good majority of the posters don't race at all now (like me "or rarely") and only pop in to make a comment now and then, also a lot of the other threads on tenths are not used anyway. I think when we were in lockdown it was pretty good but now people are out and about and working it doesn't seem so important.
Living in Spain for half the year in brilliant weather I only ever look in on my laptop when indoors, and never on my phone when out as there is more to life as far as I'm concerned This is one of my favorite unspoiled (yet) beaches near me.

[Gerard C]

The question being "are we dying off", I'd say yes, day after day. Not only the hassle of racing nowadays but the costs involved are really high or at least seem higher. Still, I've rather read this forum than wandering on FB pages.

[Mike Crow]

For those who spectate all the clubs and circuits have got so much better at using social media to provide info and updates, including timetables and entry lists, so that tends to be my first point of call these days. I do enjoy the the threads here though and check in most days.

[GORDON STREETER]

Originally Posted by Mike Crow

For those who spectate all the clubs and circuits have got so much better at using social media to provide info and updates, including timetables and entry lists, so that tends to be my first point of call these days..

Yes they do, however I can remember when even a clubbie event at most circuits had massive crowds with no internet or advertising at all ! now you can count the number of people that actually come to watch at Brands Hatch that are not part of the entries entourage at the same type of meetings.
We have talked about this several times over the years and came to the conclusion that there is so much else to choose from compared to 50 to 60 years ago when there wasn't much else open on a Sunday except the pub or the church

[Peter Mallett]

There is no limit to the number of threads a poster can start as long as they aren't duplicated so by all means post something in a separate thread. But it does appear to be true that there is a small(er) body of posters now than a few years ago. Likewise some posters have migrated to Facebook I found this sunmitted by someone who used to post here. "Bentley Drivers' Club Silverstone 13th August.
Entry form link available via the Morgan Challenge website.
Two Challenge races and the TT Morgan race.
Closing date 2nd August." I'll plug it in as a separate thread.

As it happens I'd like to do this one but I'm already committed to a trip to Yorkshire with the Jaguar Enthusiasts Club.

[Anyopenroad]

This question comes up regularly on various forums I use and the answer is usually that the discussion / info posting has migrated to Facebook groups.

[morninggents]

Originally Posted by Gerard C

Still, I've rather read this forum than wandering on FB pages.

Me too. No way do I want to be part of the FB nor other social media outlets.

[morninggents]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

As it happens I'd like to do this one but I'm already committed to a trip to Yorkshire with the Jaguar Enthusiasts Club.

Yorkshire? Welcome. Don't forget your passport.

[morninggents]

Originally Posted by GORDON STREETER

Yes they do, however I can remember when even a clubbie event at most circuits had massive crowds with no internet or advertising at all ! now you can count the number of people that actually come to watch at Brands Hatch that are not part of the entries entourage at the same type of meetings.
We have talked about this several times over the years and came to the conclusion that there is so much else to choose from compared to 50 to 60 years ago when there wasn't much else open on a Sunday except the pub or the church

And even the pubs had restricted hours in those days, so less of an 'alternative' to sports watching. Also there was a very restricted chance to shop on Sundays with virtually only newsagents, sweetshops and the odd chemist open. No B&Qs or out of town shopping malls could open.


Even Croft had decent crowds back then.

[Mike Crow]

Originally Posted by morninggents

And even the pubs had restricted hours in those days, so less of an 'alternative' to sports watching. Also there was a very restricted chance to shop on Sundays with virtually only newsagents, sweetshops and the odd chemist open. No B&Qs or out of town shopping malls could open.


Even Croft had decent crowds back then.

All that is true but I think the main reason club racing is not more popular is the endless procession of meaningless one make championships. Put on a good show and the crowds will come. As they regularly do at Castle Combe

[Lancsbreaker]

Its been noticeable (and noticed!) in the Fi forum that there's much less discussion than was the case until recently....


And many Club Forums - like my Alfa and Imp Club ones are definitely a lot quieter - with FB being the suspected reason.


I still try to check in here most days.

[midgetman]

Originally Posted by Mike Crow

All that is true but I think the main reason club racing is not more popular is the endless procession of meaningless one make championships. Put on a good show and the crowds will come. As they regularly do at Castle Combe

If by one make you mean Clio and the like, a lot of spectators prefer them because the racing is normally closer. It's the longer multi class races they don't enjoy.

FF1600 is always popular at Combe because that's so tightly regulated that even with different chassis it's near as dammit one make.

Personally I think downforce and sticky tyres are the death of club racing. Witness FF1600 and the rise in popularity of historic racing. Watching a car go round a corner glued to the road is about as exciting as watching the M4; watching even one car in a full drift, the driver defying physics, really stirs the blood.

When spectators lose interest in racing they lose interest in the forums.

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[coppice]

I dare say folk the age I am now (a day younger than Putin, I noted in The Times the other day . Eek ) were writing forlorn letters to MN and Autosport in 2002 , bemoaning the migration of correspondents to that there new fangled internet ... Plus ca change, plus ca la meme chose .

On topic , there is still a lot of excellent motorsport in this country , you just need to seek it out. I attend a wide range of stuff and crowds and participation at Autograss, drag racing and speed hillclimbs seem to me to be little changed over the last decades . Good numbers, enthusiastic and passionate about their sport .

With racing , it is more nuanced. Somebody mentioned Croft above and I can report a very healthy and keen crowd at Croft BTCC this weekend. People my age seem to delight in sneering at BTCC but with some reservations (gazebo related) it offers a great day out and some super racing - Ginettas were almost like FF1600 in their intensity. And a good show is put on - good commentary, access to grid and no endless delays and radio silence .

I am an incorrigible enthusiast, so I attend a lot of stuff , but I fully understand why the public stays away. Who on earth is going to endure thin grids , hour long lunch breaks, awful food , terrible programmes and delights such as a 4 hour long Fun Cup race, or hour long processions in some poorly supported races at historic club meetings delusionally branded as 'Festivals'?

Spec formulae can work - Ginettas, much missed Tuscans , Sevens etc but many are awfully dull . Folk prefer to see a brave little Mini or Westfield dicing with a Mustang, WTCC car or an Aussie V8 supercar. My local series , Northern Saloons and Sports Cars , offers wonderful diversity and I am sure the public love to see brawny V8s dice with bike engined minnows .

Too many clubs fish in the same pond - historics seem especially bad at this - and I'd love to see more inter club co-operation and less rivalry, with guest races and so on.

Blatant plug alert - in 2019 my book* about (inter alia ) a year(2017) in British motor sport was published . I wrote portraits of over twenty events over a range of disciplines, from VSCC trials to Goodwood to BTCC and hill climbs and interviewed as many people as I could , from Le Mans winners to weekend warriors, marshals and commentators. I then drew conclusions about what was good , what wasn't so good and suggested ways in which we might improve. The points I made still stand .

*Driven - an elegy to cars roads and motorsport

[zefarelly]

Ageing enthusiasts replaced by corporate customers creating rising costs and professional race teams rewriting history.

Add to that repetition and saturation.

Thats before you consider the state of the nation.

[Gerard C]

Agreed Joe, historic racing becoming more and more professional is one reason.

[356sc]

Combination of things I think…covid, economy, overly professional historic racing, all have had a part to play…I still lurk here on a daily basis though, just lacking in anything intelligent/interesting to post!

[NaBUru38]

Casual spectators get drawn by celebrities like Lewis Hamilton, Valentino Rossi and Travis Pastrana.


It doesn't matter to them if cars overtake or sound different each other.

[coppice]

I disagree - casual spectators may like names, but they really , really like overtaking . I was with a very animated crowd of people who I'd term as casual - go to local BTCC round every year and nothing else - and they were very animated at close Ginetta racing , with lots of cheers and much applause at the end .

[zefarelly]

Originally Posted by 356sc

Combination of things I think…covid, economy, overly professional historic racing, all have had a part to play…I still lurk here on a daily basis though, just lacking in anything intelligent/interesting to post!

Likewise!

To be clear, the standard of restoration and preparation going up is a good thing, and even us amateurs have raised our game, cars are safer and more reliable. but the level the 'professionals' go to is a significant part of the problem.

reinventing the wheel is not an 'historic' pursuit. It is a significant reason for the exodus. IMO.

[Rudernst]

yes, for a while traffic went from forums (bulletin boards) like this to Facebook.
This has ceased, completely
Facebook now is for the older user...
My sons deleted the FB app from their phones.

Traffic and dialogues have migrated from FB into Whattsapp chats, my family has several, for different subgroups

Historic Formula Junior creates one for every race, and they are lively
Historic FF operates one

I just convinced my fraternity to start one, for the annual reunion.
a roaring success

my weekly bike-meet operates one, and it keeps the group together

the problem with this medium is, that one needs to get invited, i.e. one needs to know a member...

Then there are Telegram channels
and, possible TikTok, which is not really relevant in the context of historic racings

This forum is some sort of living dinosaur, precious, but doomed

RudE

[bauble]

Originally Posted by Rudernst

yes, for a while traffic went from forums (bulletin boards) like this to Facebook.
This has ceased, completely
Facebook now is for the older user...
My sons deleted the FB app from their phones.

Traffic and dialogues have migrated from FB into Whattsapp chats, my family has several, for different subgroups

Historic Formula Junior creates one for every race, and they are lively
Historic FF operates one

I just convinced my fraternity to start one, for the annual reunion.
a roaring success

my weekly bike-meet operates one, and it keeps the group together

the problem with this medium is, that one needs to get invited, i.e. one needs to know a member...

Then there are Telegram channels
and, possible TikTok, which is not really relevant in the context of historic racings

This forum is some sort of living dinosaur, precious, but doomed

RudE

"You're all doomed" Quiet Frazer!

[bauble]

Life and technolgy move on, but sometimes they get out of step. Recently i told an acquaintance I would send him a CD of pictures, he burst out laughing. A CD ? No send me an link to an album!

And I thought I was up-to-date. Having just turned 85 I am still learning - just how out of touch I am.