BTCC BTCC 2023 season discussion, News and Rumours! - Page 20

antnee · 20 Oct 2022, 09:26 (Ref:4130867)

I am surprised no one is trying to bring the Clio Cup back. The Mk5 cars are cheap compared to the JCW minis

Evantra · 20 Oct 2022, 10:38 (Ref:4130869)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robin Marriott

That’s not even close to Clio Cup. That’s a fairly liberal club series.

Ok, a Renault Clio series then, totally different.

Sodemo · 20 Oct 2022, 11:15 (Ref:4130870)

What's this new support series that Alan Gow has touted for 2024?

Evantra · 20 Oct 2022, 11:23 (Ref:4130871)

BTC Racing look at a new build:

https://www.autosport.com/btcc/news/...sion/10386842/

Though I suppose you could write a similar thing for all teams, certainly nothing set in stone.

redshoes · 20 Oct 2022, 11:44 (Ref:4130873)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sodemo

What's this new support series that Alan Gow has touted for 2024?

Gow has said that he want's to see a new junior series in 2024 to replace the Ginettas, however that's not something that TOCA/Gow will be starting. It's a case of someone starting a suitable series, then going to TOCA to ask for a slot on the timetable. Gow : "If someone comes to me with a new junior package for 2024, the right one will get a slot."

Sodemo · 20 Oct 2022, 11:50 (Ref:4130875)

Quote:

Originally Posted by redshoes

Gow has said that he want's to see a new junior series in 2024 to replace the Ginettas, however that's not something that TOCA/Gow will be starting. It's a case of someone starting a suitable series, then going to TOCA to ask for a slot on the timetable. Gow : "If someone comes to me with a new junior package for 2024, the right one will get a slot."

Ah ok, I misunderstood what was being touted. I thought Gow was somehow starting a "BTC" juniors or something.

crmalcolm · 20 Oct 2022, 12:45 (Ref:4130880)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sodemo

I personally think that the rules should allow 2 door coupés like they did with the BTC rules of 2001 - 2007.

So there is a way in which some could be permitted - but it would be a small range to select from (I think).

'A 2 or 3 door series production touring car complies with this definition if the silhouette is identical to the 4 or 5 door version'

I am only aware of one car that fits these criteria - the BMW G22 (4-Series)

antnee · 20 Oct 2022, 13:49 (Ref:4130885)

Quote:

Originally Posted by redshoes

Gow has said that he want's to see a new junior series in 2024 to replace the Ginettas, however that's not something that TOCA/Gow will be starting. It's a case of someone starting a suitable series, then going to TOCA to ask for a slot on the timetable. Gow : "If someone comes to me with a new junior package for 2024, the right one will get a slot."

That's not how I read it - https://www.touringcartimes.com/2022...-btcc-package/

Gow - The process has already begun and whether this championship comes entirely from a third-party manufacturer or organisation, or indeed whether TOCA plays a role in the introduction of a new series, is yet to be determined. Although the end result is quite simple; I want to have the best junior series that this country can produce, in order to help develop and generate our finest and most complete drivers for the future.

S griffin · 20 Oct 2022, 14:51 (Ref:4130892)

I wonder if BTC have felt they have done all they can with the Honda and felt they need to find a more competitive package

flatapex · 20 Oct 2022, 21:35 (Ref:4130908)

BTC probably believe if you want a great car, you have to build it yourself, especially if you want a driver’s title.

History is inclined to agree

S griffin · 21 Oct 2022, 08:46 (Ref:4130951)

Eurotech are probably the only ones to win the title with a customer car.

crmalcolm · 21 Oct 2022, 09:18 (Ref:4130955)

Quote:

Originally Posted by S griffin

I wonder if BTC have felt they have done all they can with the Honda and felt they need to find a more competitive package

Yes - I think that is definitely the case. It was discussed a few posts back about how teams who take a customer car will struggle if the builder of the car is still in the championship. That is part of the reason why Laser Tools are looking to a potential new build.

Quote:

Originally Posted by S griffin

Eurotech are probably the only ones to win the title with a customer car.

In terms of the drivers' title, yes. And in terms of looking at results with a customer car, anything prior to NGTC regulations is a different context I feel.

Since the adoption of full NGTC across the whole grid, the following customer cars have picked up titles:

Year	Title	Winner
2013	Drivers' Champion	Jordan
2013	Independent Drivers'	Jordan
2013	Independent Teams	Pirtek Racing
2013	Jack Sears	Wood
2014	Jack Sears	Newsham
2017	Independent Drivers'	Ingram
2017	Independent Teams	Speedworks
2018	Independent Drivers'	Ingram
2018	Independent Teams	Speedworks
2019	Independent Drivers'	Butcher
2019	Independent Teams	Cobra Sport AmD
2019	Jack Sears	Butcher
2020	Jack Sears	Crees
2022	Independent Drivers'	Cook
2022	Independent Teams	Rich Energy BTC Racing

So what do I think this tells us? I think that as a stepping stone, picking up a customer car makes sense until you have established experience in the BTCC. But if you want to make a bid for the main titles, then you need to have your own in-house developed car.

BTC are now at this point. They tried to run something different to Team Dynamics by fitting the TOCA engine in. It seems clear that they want their own engine, and the freedom to develop a car in their own manner. And so, they need a new model and probably the support of someone like Swindon to develop the engine.

antnee · 21 Oct 2022, 09:53 (Ref:4130957)

Could BTC go to the likes of Swindon to develop a Honda engine? Therefore getting their 'own' engine?

crmalcolm · 21 Oct 2022, 10:20 (Ref:4130960)

Quote:

Originally Posted by antnee

Could BTC go to the likes of Swindon to develop a Honda engine? Therefore getting their 'own' engine?

The only blocker might be if Honda has some form of stipulation that their engine will only run with NB support.

It is the same route that the Levorg went in 2018 when they moved from Mountune to Swindon.

Although I think the want to go the whole way and develop a car and engine together. They've seen what Excelr8 has achieved and are looking to replicate.

redshoes · 26 Oct 2022, 07:35 (Ref:4131469)

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSmith

In terms of support races in 2023, here is how the calendar is looking.

Silverstone National September 23/24
BTCC
British F4
MINI JCW
Porsche Carrera Cup GB
Porsche Sprint Challenge

https://www.btcc.net/2022/10/26/cate...t-silverstone/
Caterham Seven Championship replaces F4 at Silverstone
EDIT: F4 round moves to June 23/25 on Silverstone GP, supporting Britcar

SSmith · 26 Oct 2022, 08:35 (Ref:4131478)

Quote:

Originally Posted by redshoes

https://www.btcc.net/2022/10/26/cate...t-silverstone/
Caterham Seven Championship replaces F4 at Silverstone
EDIT: F4 round moves to June 23/25 on Silverstone GP, supporting Britcar

That's really interesting to see. F4 had wanted to go to the full Silverstone GP for a while - also means that all 3 of their races will be livestreamed on YouTube.

Good exposure too for the Caterhams.

[I will amend my earlier post]

SSmith · 26 Oct 2022, 08:41 (Ref:4131479)

[UPDATED] By my reckoning still awaiting announcements for the gaps at Brands Indy, Snetterton, Thruxton, Oulton Park, Croft, and Knockhill

Donington Park National 22/23 April
BTCC
British F4
MINI JCW
Porsche Carrera Cup GB
Porsche Sprint Challenge GB

Brands Hatch Indy 6/7 May
BTCC
British F4
MINI JCW
Porsche Carrera Cup GB
TBA

Snetterton 20/21 May
BTCC
British F4
MINI JCW
Porsche Sprint Challenge
TBA

Thruxton 3/4 June
BTCC
British F4
MINI Trophy
Porsche Carrera Cup GB
TBA

Oulton Park 17/18 June
BTCC
British F4
MINI JCW
Porsche Carrera Cup GB
TBA

Croft 29/30 July
BTCC
British F4
MINI Trophy
Porsche Sprint Challenge
TBA

Knockhill 12/13 August
BTCC
British F4
MINI JCW
Porsche Carrera Cup GB
TBA

Donington GP August 26/27
BTCC
British F4
MINI Trophy
Porsche Carrera Cup GB
Porsche Sprint Challenge

Silverstone National September 23/24
BTCC
MINI JCW
Porsche Carrera Cup GB
Porsche Sprint Challenge
Caterham Seven Championship UK

Brands Hatch GP October 7/8
BTCC
British F4
MINI JCW
Porsche Carrera Cup GB
Porsche Sprint Challenge

Sources: https://www.minichallenge.co.uk/2022...023-calendars/; https://sportscarracingnews.com/2022...cup-gb-season/; https://sportscarracingnews.com/2022...-toca-in-2023/; https://www.fiaformula4.com/final-20...dar-announced/; https://www.btcc.net/2022/10/26/cate...t-silverstone/

Evantra · 26 Oct 2022, 09:58 (Ref:4131498)

Somebody on Reddit saying the Mini Miglias will be at Thruxton (hopefully!)

Nice to get a chance to see Caterhams, not sure what the grid'll be like sizewise?

redshoes · 26 Oct 2022, 10:49 (Ref:4131503)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evantra

Nice to get a chance to see Caterhams, not sure what the grid'll be like sizewise?

From 2022
Brands - 16
Snetterton - 16
Silverstone GP - 17
Donington - 20
Anglesey - 11

That was with BRSCC, they are moving to BARC for 2023, which may or may not effect numbers.

Evantra · 26 Oct 2022, 11:03 (Ref:4131504)

Quote:

Originally Posted by redshoes

From 2022
Brands - 16
Snetterton - 16
Silverstone GP - 17
Donington - 20
Anglesey - 11

That was with BRSCC, they are moving to BARC for 2023, which may or may not effect numbers.

Thank you! It was alright until it got to Anglesey!

redshoes · 26 Oct 2022, 11:08 (Ref:4131505)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evantra

Thank you! It was alright until it got to Anglesey!

Yeah but it's Anglesey so we can probably forgive them for that!

Robin Marriott · 26 Oct 2022, 15:04 (Ref:4131535)

Radicals at Snett and Oulton.

https://www.btcc.net/2022/10/26/hagerty-radical-cup-uk-to-make-toca-debut-in-2023/

Evantra · 26 Oct 2022, 15:17 (Ref:4131538)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robin Marriott

Radicals at Snett and Oulton.

https://www.btcc.net/2022/10/26/hagerty-radical-cup-uk-to-make-toca-debut-in-2023/

If the grid is as full as in the photo, should be good.

And, like the Caterhams, it's only for a couple rounds anyway. Nice to see something different.

Robin Marriott · 26 Oct 2022, 15:19 (Ref:4131539)

Yeah, I think it’s good that there’s lots of ‘guest’ slots for variety.

redshoes · 26 Oct 2022, 15:41 (Ref:4131544)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evantra

If the grid is as full as in the photo, should be good.

I think the picture is from the Silverstone GP rounds where it was the SR1 Cup and Challenge combined.

2022 entries
Donington - 13
Brands GP - 12
Snetterton - 10 (9 starters)
Silverstone GP - 12 (+ 23 Challenge entries)
Outon Park - 10
Donington GP - 14

hmm

EDIT: Note to self, read the full story first. SR1 Cup and Challenge are combining for 2023 so maybe the photo is representitive.

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