[BTCC] BTCC 2023 season discussion, News and Rumours!

[touring fan01]

Originally Posted by Pickles

Morgan to WSR...

[Craner Curves]

WSR Uberteam then? That would be a force to be reckoned with.

[antnee]

MB stepping up another notch, with support from WSR? Will we see WSR drop to 2 'TEAM BMW' cars then MB as a satellite team?

As for Morgan, I initially read the article as racing outside of BTCC...

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by antnee

MB stepping up another notch, with support from WSR? Will we see WSR drop to 2 'TEAM BMW' cars then MB as a satellite team?

As for Morgan, I initially read the article as racing outside of BTCC...

WSR to stay as 3 cars with MB replacing Cicely as the 2-car customer team. No real change to this year.

And I read the same for Morgan. Doing something next year, just not BTCC.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by antnee

As for Morgan, I initially read the article as racing outside of BTCC...

I guess that all comes down to how you interpret 'I fully intend to continue competing at the highest level of UK motorsport' ?

I read it (particularly as it was mentioned on the official site) as meaning BTCC - but it could equally be one of the other series.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by redshoes

WSR to stay as 3 cars with MB replacing Cicely as the 2-car customer team. No real change to this year.

If it does turn out that way - it will be interesting to see who WSR get in to replace Hill? And how Hill responds to someone taking over his seat?

The TBL list will be intriguing....

[porsche962fan]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

If it does turn out that way - it will be interesting to see who WSR get in to replace Hill?

Jordan ?

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

it will be interesting to see who WSR get in to replace Hill? And how Hill responds to someone taking over his seat?

Hill will be in one of the MB Motorsport BMWs, probably with the same engineer, so not sure he will care who gets the WSR drive.

[Overboost]

Originally Posted by redshoes

WSR to stay as 3 cars with MB replacing Cicely as the 2-car customer team. No real change to this year.

And I read the same for Morgan. Doing something next year, just not BTCC.

WSR will run all four cars, with Jake in the MB one & no extra MB BMW this next season.

[porsche962fan]

wouldn't it be 5 BMW ?

3 WSR plus 2 ex Cicely

[S700UBO]

TBL announcement must be imminent!

Would Hazard next couple days?

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

wouldn't it be 5 BMW ?

3 WSR plus 2 ex Cicely

That depends on who acquires the 2x TBLs that were in the hands of Ciceley, what WSR do with their 3x TBLs and the plans for the 6x BMWs.

Always remember - Ciceley might be selling the cars to another team that want to use the NGTC components in a different make of car.

[Matt K]

Wow that's completely surprising for me, never saw that coming. Quite a shame. I assume Morgan may have quite a safe landing with WSR/MB if he decides to carry on.
I wonder what Gamble does, I really hope he can stay in the BTCC as his debut season was really impressive and kind of hoped he can build on that and have some nice future in the BTCC. Personally, a MB team of Hill and Gamble would be perfect in my view. But that's ifs and buts of course.

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

That depends on who acquires the 2x TBLs that were in the hands of Ciceley, what WSR do with their 3x TBLs and the plans for the 6x BMWs.

Always remember - Ciceley might be selling the cars to another team that want to use the NGTC components in a different make of car.

Didn't Motorbase want to go RWD?

[Matt K]

Originally Posted by billy bleach

Didn't Motorbase want to go RWD?

They did but last news I heard on that seemed to suggest keeping Fords is the most likely option after all.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by billy bleach

Didn't Motorbase want to go RWD?

They do / did. The NGTC parts may be attractive to them - or even to take the cars and make the switch to BMW.

One thing I am not sure of is the homologation restrictions they may face if they take on the BMWs. Laser Tools faced the same challenge when they had the A-Class, and Ciceley held restrictions over the changes that Laser Tools could make with the car.

Moffat Sr: "Aiden wasn't enjoying himself with the Mercedes. Everyone else had moved on so much, and Ciceley had the rights to the car, so although I was prepared to spend money on development they seemed to want to go in their own direction"

I'm sure that the Motorbase camp will be wary of this when deciding whether to take on the BMWs.

[Pdh]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

They do / did. The NGTC parts may be attractive to them - or even to take the cars and make the switch to BMW.

One thing I am not sure of is the homologation restrictions they may face if they take on the BMWs. Laser Tools faced the same challenge when they had the A-Class, and Ciceley held restrictions over the changes that Laser Tools could make with the car.

Moffat Sr: "Aiden wasn't enjoying himself with the Mercedes. Everyone else had moved on so much, and Ciceley had the rights to the car, so although I was prepared to spend money on development they seemed to want to go in their own direction"

I'm sure that the Motorbase camp will be wary of this when deciding whether to take on the BMWs.

Unless there’s 4 BMWs for sale I doubt Motorbase would be buying them. It’s a four car team not two

[touring fan01]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

That depends on who acquires the 2x TBLs that were in the hands of Ciceley, what WSR do with their 3x TBLs and the plans for the 6x BMWs.

Always remember - Ciceley might be selling the cars to another team that want to use the NGTC components in a different make of car.

autosport today say that Morgan will be taking one of his TBL to WSR to make a four car squad and their other TBL has been sold to speedworks to run three cars.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

They do / did. The NGTC parts may be attractive to them - or even to take the cars and make the switch to BMW.

One thing I am not sure of is the homologation restrictions they may face if they take on the BMWs. Laser Tools faced the same challenge when they had the A-Class, and Ciceley held restrictions over the changes that Laser Tools could make with the car.

Moffat Sr: "Aiden wasn't enjoying himself with the Mercedes. Everyone else had moved on so much, and Ciceley had the rights to the car, so although I was prepared to spend money on development they seemed to want to go in their own direction"

I'm sure that the Motorbase camp will be wary of this when deciding whether to take on the BMWs.

It may not be totally clear-cut, to us on the outside, about who holds any rights to the BMW. However, it must be borne in mind that the Ciceley cars were originally sourced from WSR, so there may be restrictions placed on what can be done by either WSR and/or Cicely.

[porsche962fan]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

so there may be restrictions placed on what can be done by either WSR and/or Cicely.

what restrictions when most of the car is standard parts anyway

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

what restrictions when most of the car is standard parts anyway

In 2019, Bob Moffat spoke at length about the restrictions placed on them in developing the A-Class.
They had no access to the IP rights, and all of the development direction was dictated by Ciceley to suit Adam Morgan's style - not Aiden Moffat's.

BTC have also found themselves in the same situation with the TD Civics, with having to adopt the aero package that TD apply to the car, and not provide their own.

There may be a lot of common parts underneath, but body, aero and packaging of the parts is determined by the homologation and rights owner of the car. In the case of the 330e, I would expect this to be WSR that hold the rights, meaning that anyone who purchased the ex-Ciceley cars would have to follow WSR's lead for development (not necessarily a bad thing, but if you want to beat them you may want to take a different path).
It is this reason that BTC want to move away from having a customer car, and applies to a lot of teams on the grid having built NGTC experience.

[porsche962fan]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

It is this reason that BTC want to move away from having a customer car, and applies to a lot of teams on the grid having built NGTC experience.

I don't understand , back in the Group C days a lot of Porsche 956 / 962 customers did their own development on those cars, most well know a certain Richard Lloyd and his 962 GTI , a brand newly developed chassis underneath and outside things like a front wing and modified rear wing and a big company like Porsche didn't mind and in the BTCC they stuck with restrictive crap like this

[S griffin]

Shame we won’t see Cicely. Hope someone snaps up Morgan, as he can then show he’s not a one trick pony, who can only win in his family team

[coffinpilot]

On the 4x BMW for WSR (two each for WSR and MB satellite if that's the case.)

With 6 BMW's having being built. Is chassis #1 retired again?
With #1 replacing #6 damaged at Oulton for the second half of the year, does that mean that there is a possibility that #6 hasn't been/won't be fully repaired? Meaning it's a bit easier to bring the two Ciceley machines under the WSR wings than building another?

Must admit when I read the statement my initial thought was that Morgan was gone - with a personal hope that he'd go to TCR to pick up from the end of 2019 ;-) I mean, if the racing bug is still there, without the hassle of sorting an NGTC car out every two weeks, and the expense of GT, would it be a thing? But after reading Autosport it seems likely doesn't it?

I still reckon that one or two from this year might look at TCR for next year, Europe or UK considering the budget difference.

[SSmith]

Originally Posted by touring fan01

autosport today say that Morgan will be taking one of his TBL to WSR to make a four car squad and their other TBL has been sold to speedworks to run three cars.

Further to this - Marcus Simmons at Autosport has suggested WSRs 2023 line-up will be Turkington, Jelley, Hill, and Morgan. According to Simmons, Gamble is in discussions with FWD and RWD teams for the 2023 season.