[Team] Red Bull: Unbullievable

[chunterer]

Trouble is Bearman's performance in Saudi and to an extent Lawson's good job last year with At/RB has arguably made F2 look a bit suspect.

Both these guys have shown speed but struggled to get consistent results in F2. Victor Martins is goimg througj the same issues thus season with ART.

There are 2 ways to look at it.

Either F1 cars are much easier to drive than we thought, or, top quality young drivers are beimg stifled by the odd characteristics of the F2 cars and tyres...

[v8supes]

They just mentioned on Sky Sports F1 coverage of Monaco FP3 that Rudy Van Buren is the Red Bull simulator driver for this weekend as Buemi and Dennis are at Formula E. Doesn't strike me as the most "Normal" path to F1?

https://www.driverdb.com/drivers/rudy-van-buren

[v8supes]

Originally Posted by v8supes

They just mentioned on Sky Sports F1 coverage of Monaco FP3 that Rudy Van Buren is the Red Bull simulator driver for this weekend as Buemi and Dennis are at Formula E. Doesn't strike me as the most "Normal" path to F1?

https://www.driverdb.com/drivers/rudy-van-buren

Later on they also said that Lawson was doing the sim work but Lawson was pictured in Monaco on that very same day.

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Trouble is Bearman's performance in Saudi and to an extent Lawson's good job last year with At/RB has arguably made F2 look a bit suspect.

Both these guys have shown speed but struggled to get consistent results in F2. Victor Martins is goimg througj the same issues thus season with ART.

There are 2 ways to look at it.

Either F1 cars are much easier to drive than we thought, or, top quality young drivers are beimg stifled by the odd characteristics of the F2 cars and tyres...

Pretty much any F1 driver of the last 20 years will tell you that F1 cars are much easier to drive than the junior formulae cars.

Getting the final degree maybe not so much, but competence definitely.

[Plantagenet]

I know this get discussed to death but for a team renowned for its ruthlessness, I just cannot see any justification for Perez to retain his seat next year.
All the chatter seems to suggest that the second RB seat is not up for grabs - which if I find baffling given Perez’s quali performances. They need a good strong number 2, especially given the diver line ups for McLaren and Ferrari in 25.

At the very least, put Yuki in it!

[v8supes]

That seems to be my thoughts too but then i actually looked back at the previous race results (I dont watch every race any more) and actually i was quite surprised that Perez actually has better results than i thought. The question i guess we need to ask is "Is the Red Bull genuinely that far ahead given Maxs results or is Max just an alien?"

Imola - P8
Miami - P4
China - P3
Japan - P2
Australia - P5
Saudi - P2
Bahrain - P2

[Teretonga]

Originally Posted by Plantagenet

I know this get discussed to death but for a team renowned for its ruthlessness, I just cannot see any justification for Perez to retain his seat next year.
All the chatter seems to suggest that the second RB seat is not up for grabs - which if I find baffling given Perez’s quali performances. They need a good strong number 2, especially given the diver line ups for McLaren and Ferrari in 25.

At the very least, put Yuki in it!

Go back through practice and qualifying.
Look at the Perez times between him the fastest times in FP1, FP2, FP3, (Hamilton and Leclerc).
Then read the team comments on qualifying.
Then note that Albon and Gasly both ended up in Q3.
Then also note the Alonso went out in Q1 as well as Perez and both had the same issue with traffic because of the narrow nature of the circuit.

If you simply look at some order without understanding behind it you will easily make false assumptions. qualifying in Monaco can be a dog's breakfast.

Coming across a slow car creates airflow problems and time problems. Alonso said as much as 2 tenths. So thats where the time goes. Margins here are tiny.
And the RB20 obviously doesn't like Monaco.
It doesn't play to the cars strengths.

So the qualifying is not representative entirely of race pace.... But you cannot pass easily.
So what are the odds of Albon and Gasly leading trains of cars that can't pass except during pitstops? Possibly quite high.

Wait and watch on Sunday.

[Beau2]

Originally Posted by Teretonga

Go back through practice and qualifying.
Look at the Perez times between him the fastest times in FP1, FP2, FP3, (Hamilton and Leclerc).
Then read the team comments on qualifying.
Then note that Albon and Gasly both ended up in Q3.
Then also note the Alonso went out in Q1 as well as Perez and both had the same issue with traffic because of the narrow nature of the circuit.

If you simply look at some order without understanding behind it you will easily make false assumptions. qualifying in Monaco can be a dog's breakfast.

Coming across a slow car creates airflow problems and time problems. Alonso said as much as 2 tenths. So thats where the time goes. Margins here are tiny.
And the RB20 obviously doesn't like Monaco.
It doesn't play to the cars strengths.

So the qualifying is not representative entirely of race pace.... But you cannot pass easily.
So what are the odds of Albon and Gasly leading trains of cars that can't pass except during pitstops? Possibly quite high.

Wait and watch on Sunday.

This is fine for a one off, but at Imola Perez managed to miss Q3 and only finished the race in 7th.

[Teretonga]

Originally Posted by Beau2

This is fine for a one off, but at Imola Perez managed to miss Q3 and only finished the race in 7th.

At Imola he missed Q3 by hundredths of a second. Qualified 11th after someone dropped a final attempt less than half a tenth faster.
Can you pronounce any three-syllable word audibly legible in a flow of speech within 3 or 4 hundredths of a second? Most people can't.

Monaco?
Well look at the size of the problem.
Perez is not Max, that's why Checo is No. 2 and Max is the lead driver.

From Racer Magazine.
https://racer.com/2024/05/25/i-cant-...th-verstappen/

This is Red Bulls weak point.
And the other guy who didn't make it out of Q1?
Fernando whatshisname?
He missed it at Imola too, but no one has questioned his credentials for his seat.
But they question Lance Stroll who has outqualified him at the last two events.

[Beau2]

Originally Posted by Teretonga

At Imola he missed Q3 by hundredths of a second. Can you pronounce any three-syllable word audibly legible in a flow of speech within 3 or 4 hundredths of a second? Most people can't.

Well look at the size of the problem.
Perez is not Max, that's why Checo is No. 2 and Max is the lead driver.

From Racer Magazine.
https://racer.com/2024/05/25/i-cant-...th-verstappen/

This is Red Bulls weak point.

The problem at Imola was that Perez was 6 tenths behind Max in Q2. It's irrelevent how close he was to making it to Q3 when the gap to his team mate was one of the biggest on the grid.
That is not good enough.

You're right, Checo is not Max but right now Checo isn't exactly helping RB get another WCC.Coincidentally, Checo did exactly the same thing last year; he started the season well and then fell apart in Europe.

[PanozDP01]

Originally Posted by Teretonga

At Imola he missed Q3 by hundredths of a second. Qualified 11th after someone dropped a final attempt less than half a tenth faster.
Can you pronounce any three-syllable word audibly legible in a flow of speech within 3 or 4 hundredths of a second? Most people can't.

Monaco?
Well look at the size of the problem.
Perez is not Max, that's why Checo is No. 2 and Max is the lead driver.

From Racer Magazine.
https://racer.com/2024/05/25/i-cant-...th-verstappen/

This is Red Bulls weak point.
And the other guy who didn't make it out of Q1?
Fernando whatshisname?
He missed it at Imola too, but no one has questioned his credentials for his seat.
But they question Lance Stroll who has outqualified him at the last two events.

There is always excuses for Perez. But his annual collapse in form is happening just in time yet again.

This is called rewarding failure. He just doesn't have it and barely had it. Even in 2021, Gasly beat him in the Toro Rosso 7 times. And his lack of form in the Euro tracks cost Red Bull the WCC. This is sure to happen again.

And its not like there isn't any options out there. At the start of the year, options were almost limitless. They could have went for Alonso or Hulk. But they passed on them. Then there's Carlos Sainz, Bottas, Tsunoda, Gasly or even Zhou (if the team wants money)

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by Plantagenet

I know this get discussed to death but for a team renowned for its ruthlessness, I just cannot see any justification for Perez to retain his seat next year.

Perez is a compliant number 2 driver and brings in $50m p/a in value in the form of sponsorship and 65% of RBR merchandise sales apparently.