Brands Hatch GP Circuit

[alfaracer]

Can anyone help me with this one.

I am racing an Alfa this Saturday on the GP track and am trying to find out what a competitive time is now that they have changed Dingle Dell.

Lap record before was 1 min 50.8 seconds. Is the track now quicker or slower. It would be good to know before going out to qualify what kind of time is needed for pole.

Any help appreciated.

[david_james2000]

Im sure when the superbikes raced on thr GP circute there where a little slower

dunno if that help's
haven't really seen a car race on the GP circute this year

[spanner]

The HSCC superprix was run on the GP loop earlier on in the year. Their website might list qualifying times and results. try www.hscc.org.uk

[Rod Birley]

Basically the times are the same despite the alteration.

[simon drabble]

I raced in the Gentlemen Drivers race at the HSCC meeting and found it easier on the car as you dont end up clipping the two kerbs, having said that my engine self destructed on the second lap of a 1 hour race so I am not the best qualified to answer!

[alfaracer]

Thanks for the input.

I did find a bike site that reckoned it was a second a lap slower, but I guess it depends on how much the car/bike you run with was able to use the kerbs before.

I did notice that at the apex of the corner is a wide area (probably a car width at least), of that crossed sunken rubber matting. I wonder how usable that will be grip wise and also whether you are "allowed" to use it all. It would certainly straighten the corner significanly.

[Rocktracer]

how did your racing go? I did see rather a few bent Alfa's!!!

[SuperDavros]

Does anyone know what happenned in the Alfa race, as suddenly there was chaos?

[Stephen Green]

Someone blew an engine at Druids and mayhem followed. Three cars into the tyre wall on the exit of Druids meant we had to call for a race stop. Sorry guys.

[SuperDavros]

Stephen, were you at Druids by any chance? If so, you weren't the marshal who ran accross the track at Druids to inspect the oil slick?

[jamescrofts]

Hi Stephen (Green),

Great to see you at Druids on Saturday. I took some great shots of Neil Purdie before his off. They should be in the Exchange and Mart on Thursday.

James

[Stephen Green]

SuperDavros, I was the Observer at Post 5 (entrance to Druids) and I did run across after the race was stopped. Red shoes much in evidence this weekend!

James, I wondered what happened to Neil as he suddenly 'disappeared' on Saturday and didn't re-appear on Sunday. I was hoping to chat at greater length after our brief 'hello' after the marshals briefing on Saturday morning

[SuperDavros]

HI Stephen, Congratulations on Catching the Priest!

I was driving the black 33 (#34), which hit the stationary orange coloured 75 at the top of Druids and continued on, just before the others went crazy!

As the red flag was out, no chance to wave to all the marshals - next time!

[Stephen Green]

Ah bad luck, that was rather unfortunate and you didn't really have anywhere to go I'm afraid. It was a bit of a frenetic race and it's unfortunate it ended the way it did. I hope the guys manage to get the cars repaired before the next race.

[alfa57]

Unfortunately I was one of the four cars that went into the wall very hard.

What we couldn't work out was why it wasn't until four cars hit the wall that the red flags came out.

The car who's oil it was was 10 - 15 secs behind the leaders. I have pictures that show the oil slick was 4+ feet wide and 20 feet long on the apex. There was one and a half minutes before us leaders came round to do something about it.

We also have two in-car videos that proves beyond question that when the 5 leaders arrived the ONLY oil flag or yellow flag was 3/4 of the way round Druids - too late for us to do anything about it.

The marshalls there all accused us of not obeying flag signals. Too right we didn't as there weren't any until we had already turned in to the corner and couldn't slow down any more.

I'm afraid it was an avoidable accident that the officials are ducking away from their responsibility - I thought safety came as No 1 - obviously not when there's a packed programme and a 6.30 curfew !!

Who failed in their duties? Did anyone marshaling / observing at Druids call for a red flag before we got there? If so - why didn't race control respond? If not - why not? Spectators in the Paddock stand could see the slick and new exactly what was about to happen as the leaders came overe the start line a minute after the oil apeared - they could just sit there and wait for the inevitable.

[Stephen Green]

Right, I was the Observer for the whole of Druids and it was only after the cars went into the wall that I called for a race stop. From where I was standing I couldn't see the oil, sorry guys, but the camber of the track made that impossible. Whether there was a flag at my post or not I can't say (not dodging the question guys) but I was trying to watch the action and write reports of previous accidents there (SuperDavros and the other car).

I am not trying to lay blame at anyones door when I say that like many meetings, especially two day meetings, we were short of the lnumber of marshals we would like to have had. That means that there may have been only one flag marshal on the post rather than two, and a shortage of course/fire marshals to deal with incidents.

As many of you already know we have been trying to recruit new marshals for some time, not always as successfully as we would like, but that's the story I'm afraid. The guys (and girls) we did have on post this weekend were all regular marshals and did a fantastic job. Sadly, like everyone else, we can only work within the limitations that prevail.

I was terribly saddened to see the cars when I crossed the track after the red flag and can only hope that the accidents do not make it impossible for you to continue the season.

Can I make one last point having just re-read your comments about red flags. There is always a small delay between the Observer on post asking for a race stop and the order being given by the Clerk of the Course. Firstly, we have to ring race control to make the request, they then have to ascertain the action best suited and finally the order is given to the starter. I know this won't make you feel any better, nor will it repair the damage to your car. However, I do hope it goes some small way to explaining the difficulties under which we all operate on occasions.

[Stephen Green]

I would also add that the packed program and the curfew had no bearing on this particular incident, of that I am certain. The safety of drivers and marshals has, and always will be, uppermost in our thoughts and actions.

Unfortunately, spectators in the Paddock Grandstand often have a better view of things than those on the ground and so I feel that comment is a little unfair.

[Dave Brand]

Originally posted by Stephen Green
Can I make one last point having just re-read your comments about red flags. There is always a small delay between the Observer on post asking for a race stop and the order being given by the Clerk of the Course. Firstly, we have to ring race control to make the request, they then have to ascertain the action best suited and finally the order is given to the starter.

This is one thing I think bikes do better than cars. When a bike race is red flagged, the call 'all points, red flag' goes out over radio to the people in charge of the posts (IO/sector marshal/corner commander/whatever) who immediately signal to the flaggies, who will, in any case be aware that it has been called for as they are usually provided with radios by the organising club. Contrast this with the car system, where the red flag goes out on the start/finish line & is only shown at points around the circuit when a flaggie sees it at the previous post & will not be aware of the call unless he is close to the box or has his own scanner. Which system gets a race stopped more quickly?

[Peter Mallett]

Alfa57,

I recall a race last year where a car had blown up and the entire track was covered in oil. Fortunately there were no major accidents but the truth is that nobody could actually see the oil, we just felt the cars lose grip inexplicably. My tyres were slick with oil afterwards.

After a couple of laps the oil flages came out and stayed out for the rest of the race.

We all had a go at the CoC afterwards but on reflection it was just one of those things.

Sometimes neither we nor the marshals can see the problem. So I think you might be best putting this one down to (bad) experience. Hope you get your car sorted.

[jamescrofts]

Marshalls did a good job on the GP circuit; good to see the full circuit used for a club event.

James

[alfaracer]

Just a couple more details of the incident which make it more frustrating for the people who now have very bent cars.

The oil dropped was the entire sump of an Alfa 156, apparently about 8 litres in a short stretch of track. Even if yellow / red flags had been displayed at the entry to the corner all the cars would probably still have had huge moments and gone off, and this is nothing to do with drivers not slowing down enough for the flags. Anything over walking pace and you were off. The race needed to be red flagged immediately; the track wasn't slippery, it was undrivable. If the procedures aren't in place to stop the race quickly, then they should be.

As for myself, my car is badly damaged and after over 10 years in motorsport, Brands was my last race. A sad note to walk away on, but enough is enough.

The final straw was finding out afterwards that the race had been shortened from 10 to 7 laps (hence we were on our last lap of the race when the accdent happened) but none of the drivers knew. We all still believed it to be a 10 lap race. Says everything about how the true "club racer" is treated these days.

[graham bahr]

it has to be said, top marks to the BRSCC for putting on a club event on the GP circuit and to BARC/BRSCC for the sensable entry fee for the ingear/southern saloon race, a sensable entry fee and a full grid say it all, and what a cracking race it was, well at least it was from where i was sitting (car 46 bmw 2002)

well done to every one involved in that meeting, thanks.

[alfa57]

I find it hard to believe that anyone who was standing there and saw the smoke when Chris' 156 split his sump didn't realise exactly what had happened. To say they couldn't 'see' the oil and equally couldn't see the consequences . . . well it's a pretty poor excuse.

Check out the picture here and then tell if you think you wouldn't have noticed the oil - note it carries on right down the hill after the cement trail has finished!

http://www.bianco-alfa.com/html/latest_news.html

Perhaps the marshalls / observers here can answer a question for me. From the previous posting it seems it needs an observer to ask the CofC for a red flag. Where was the next observer after the chap who posted here on the entry to Druids - and theough no fault of his was so poorly positioned he couldn't see the track on the exit? Please don't tell me the next one was at Graham Hill bend !?!

[Elio]

alfaracer and alfa57, I was taking photos from the top of Druids on Saturday evening. I really feel for all the Alfa drivers involved in that TOTALLY avoidable accident.

I couldnt believe the lack of oil flags on Druids entry. Even if observers couldn`t see the oil they should have mirrored the flags shown opposiye them at Druids exit. It was a very helpless feeling I had just standing there and KNOWING what was just about to happen and being able to do nothing about it (but take pictures!). Even spectators called for the marshals to throw the oil flag.

The slick was big, yes, but some drivers did hit it and stay on, and although waved yellows and some "slow down" gestures from the marshlas mightnt have stopped others from going off it would`ve at least helped. Ideally the race should`ve been stopped there and then - there WAS time between the oil going down and the accident occurring to halt it. The digital pictures I have record time taken: The #66 Alfa blew at Druids at approximately 1 min and 35 seconds before the leaders hit the slick. AMPLE TIME I think.

Here`s a quick shot before (note the #33 Alfa has already been caught out).........

[Elio]

It`s pretty amazing the "observers" couldn`t quite observe that magnitude of a slick isn`t it?

And the only shot I have covering the "impact" of the lead group as my memory card ran out of space just at the wrong time......