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26 Jan 2004, 18:12 (Ref:851369)
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#1 | |
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Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,500
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LMP2 v LMP675
First of all there were some articles and posts flosting around before the LMP2 regs were released that stated that the ACO intended the new LMP2 cars to be no quicker than a LMP675 Pilbeam.
These now seem wide of the mark as the new Courage C65 has been designed as an LMP2 car, with only a few changes to its LMP675 spec, from 2003. Plus of course the LMP2 cars will have bigger restrictors than the 2003 LMP675s. Also take into account that The Courage and DBA were closer to 750KG than 675KG, yet were competitive in LMP675. My question is how quick do you expect the new LMP2 cars to be. Personally I believe they will suprise a lot of people and could get a few top 6 finishes in 2004, particualalry in the LMES and at LM. |
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26 Jan 2004, 18:16 (Ref:851371)
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#2 | ||
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Registered User
Racer
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 235
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Anything below 3'40" at La Sarthe??
how quick did Alliot pedal round last year in the JPX C65?? |
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26 Jan 2004, 20:16 (Ref:851517)
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#3 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,536
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I have been wondering how this all fits in- wasn't LMP675 a less expensive, smaller, smaller powerplant but equal power to weight ratio (3.3:1 vs. 3.4:1) or something- all designed for more privateers, and as most came in portly at 750 or so kgs, the class never relly challenged outright except the MG-lolas.
why is that? now the LMP2 is clearly built to be portly and no one should have trouble meeting these standards so will the new LMP2 class simply be also rans? when faced with 675 siblings? |
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26 Jan 2004, 20:40 (Ref:851542)
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#4 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,215
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I don't know if I totally agree with one of your points, GTTouring...
I've been watching the FIA-SCC telecasts on SpeedChannel over the past few weeks, and the DBA Zytek, when it was racing and not broken down or in a gravel trap, was definitely the class of the field.... They were walking away from the filed when Shimodo slid off twice in th rain at Estoril late in th event and Pesca took the win...but the contest wasn't very close until they had the slide-offs... Donnington...the same thing....the DBA was clearly faster than the Dome...but a late breakage of the gearbox cost them the race... They won handily at Ochsersleben...it was no contest.... I know that they didn't run at Lautzring...very few cars did...and I'll check to see if they ran at Monza...but I didn't remember seeing them listed in that field... Although the telecasts are really 1 hr. highlight shows, everything I've watched with the DBA's races in Europe showed me that they were as fast, if not faster, than the Domes or the Pescas... They also qualified rather well at Petit in 2002 and at Sebring...but the car was pretty new and gearbox problems plagued them... I think they will be contenders this season with the new teams running them.... Everything I've seen of them was quite impressive in competition, though.... Otherwise, I do agree with your thoughts on how the LMP2's wil stack up...I don't think they will challenge the LMP1's in speed like the 675s did with the MG-Lolas and the DBA Zytek against the LMP900s... |
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26 Jan 2004, 21:11 (Ref:851565)
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#5 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,215
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On the DBA-Zytek
They ran at Spa...which was dominated by Team Goh... They had an accident on the 98th lap... Anyone remember how they ran or qualified for the 2003 race at Spa? If it was like the rest of the season, they were in the hunt.... |
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26 Jan 2004, 21:17 (Ref:851573)
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#6 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 6,699
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I do agree with you Tim that the DBA Zytek was very competitive in the FIA SCC, or at least it appears that way. I've also been watching the telecasts recently on Speed. But one thing about the Estoril Round, car setups for the wet (and driver ability) is a totally different ball game. To judge on that event alone is a bit much maybe.
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26 Jan 2004, 21:31 (Ref:851592)
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#7 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,525
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At Spa the DBA qualified 3rd with a 2:18.279 (and that was infront of both Domes) and the Goh Audi set a pole time of 2:14.889 with the Pescarolo Courage 2nd at 2:17.651.
The best Dome set a 2:20.289 (Lammers/Bosch) Last edited by Duffacus; 26 Jan 2004 at 21:33. |
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26 Jan 2004, 21:38 (Ref:851602)
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#8 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,215
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I went into more than Estoril in the wet....
The DBA won Oschersleben...handily.... It led many laps at Donnington and was fater than the Domes, etc.....gearbox brokelate in the race.... They were fast in all of the FIA-SCC races they competed in.... I was considering starting a thread on my observations of the DBA in teh FIA-SCC last year until this subject came up, because from the races I have watched where they competed, they looked to me to be one of the fastest, if not the fastest car on the track... No need for the thread now....we got the discussion going here.... |
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26 Jan 2004, 21:42 (Ref:851607)
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#9 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 6,699
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Sorry Tim, missed that you mentioned their victory. I do agree though, it seems like a fair car indeed. Is Zytek the only power choice for that chassis?
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26 Jan 2004, 21:53 (Ref:851616)
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#10 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 3,390
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The DBA was lightning quick at spa in the wet
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26 Jan 2004, 22:05 (Ref:851631)
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#11 | ||
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Rookie
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 21
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I just looked in the results of the priliminary tests. The best round for the DBA was 3,47.708. The second 675 was the reynard-lehman in 3,57.760 thats 10 seconds slower per round. The best lmp 900 was the team GOH in 3,38.385 and thats 10 seconds faster than the DBA. I think that DBA is in good shape but i think they lose some time at the longer straits. But at the shorter circuits they are more in advance.
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26 Jan 2004, 23:05 (Ref:851708)
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#12 | |
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Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,500
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The qualifying a Spa was also wet. The 2002 Pole was something like 2.07 by the Dome.
Its worth bearing in mind that Zytek are developing new parts for the DBA/Zytek and are also improving the engine. With 2002 restrictors it was already producing 540BHP. Its also worth pointing out that LMP675 was never intended to compete for overall wins. The ACO just got there sums wrong and ended up creating a class that could. Plus the lightweight of the LMP675 cars meant they needed regular rebuilds. LMP2, performance wise, should be between the MG-Lola and older Reynard. In fact similar to the Courage pace in 2003. The downforce that the Courage LMP2 has lost will be made up for with the bigger restrictors. Last edited by JAG; 26 Jan 2004 at 23:07. |
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27 Jan 2004, 02:14 (Ref:851814)
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#13 | |
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Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,496
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which is why current lmp675s (like the lola/mg, lola/judd, dba/zytec) are allowed into lmp1 un-altered for the most part? just air restrictors? and the older lola, c65, and reynards once up to weight in lmp2?
since the c65 has proven decent pace, could a team, provided theyve suffent funds, convert it to lmp1? |
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27 Jan 2004, 05:31 (Ref:851857)
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#14 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 521
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The main difference as I see it was LM675 was never intended to be a secondary class, just an optional way of addressing the top class by using a lighter less powerfull car. LMP2 IS intended to be a secondary class..
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I specialize in the history of small displacement sports racers from France and Italy, circa 1930-1960.
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