Donington this weekend - Is it on? - It is NOW! - And there's more! - Page 10

The STIG · 10 Apr 2009, 12:20 (Ref:2438022)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Piglet

Someone said earlier that the original plans showed a bridge at this point, does anyone know if this is true? If so I wonder who made the decision to alter the design?

Well, here's the plans - http://www.donington-park.co.uk/file...aster_plan.pdf

And here's absolute proof

redshoes · 10 Apr 2009, 12:47 (Ref:2438040)

Quote:

Originally Posted by The STIG

And here's absolute proof

I assumed that meant a road bridge as well but if you watch the Track Simulation video they clearly refer to a new tunnel. There is a bridge shown at that point but it's more of an overhead gantry like the one at Starkey's than something you could walk/drive across.

The STIG · 10 Apr 2009, 14:13 (Ref:2438080)

Quote:

Originally Posted by redshoes

I assumed that meant a road bridge as well but if you watch the Track Simulation video they clearly refer to a new tunnel. There is a bridge shown at that point but it's more of an overhead gantry like the one at Starkey's than something you could walk/drive across.

One can only presume that the plans have changed since from a Bridge to a Tunnel. Surely if it was a gantry it would be marked as such?

Andrew Kitson · 10 Apr 2009, 14:18 (Ref:2438082)

If it was to be a vehicle bridge, surely they would be building that, rather than messing about with a tunnel?

Dean Watson · 10 Apr 2009, 14:20 (Ref:2438084)

Quote:

Originally Posted by terence bower

Why?

lack of track license or any indication that one would be available, big meetings needing to certain things in place and alternatives to be arranged in case.

Otherwise they would end up in the same position as MSVR and having to add events to maintain championship requirements

stroller · 10 Apr 2009, 14:36 (Ref:2438098)

Quote:

Originally Posted by The STIG

Well, here's the plans - http://www.donington-park.co.uk/file...aster_plan.pdf

And here's absolute proof

Still shows a considerable narrowing of the runoff area on the aproach to the bridge as shown (the red line) especially on the inside

How many times have we seen cars lose it coming out of Mcleans and spin onto the infield - sometimes up as far as where the gap in the barrier used to be - about halfway up

**Peter Mallett** · 10 Apr 2009, 14:37 (Ref:2438099)

And Masters is running some fairly hairy machinery, not least the formula one cars.

grantp · 10 Apr 2009, 14:47 (Ref:2438105)

A few observations from a spectator at both of last weekend's events.

The old McNish accident was along the Dunlop bridge straight which now has high fencing along the top of the wall, as does most of the circuit. The tunnel mentioned still exists but is rarely used other than for some infield access by vehicles where groups are meeting at the infield hospitality areas for the larger meetings. The entrance to the tunnel is next to the current Exhibition centre, the same gate that lets the public into the Melbourne Loop area when it is in use.

The new tunnel is in effect replacing the old cross track infield access point used by vehicles that could not get through the Coppice tunnel. So it's about half way between McLeans and Coppice just at the start of the track's rise.

The line of the inner barrier currently pretty much follows the 'bridge' plan posted a few posts above. The outer wall projects into the circuit but after the end of the gravel trap on the outside of McLeans. From memory, I need to compare some old and new photos, the gravel trap is no smaller and possibly larger than it was. The outer wall then projects inward at an angle - again pretty much as per the posted plan. So whats there is hardly unexpected,which makes things interesting in terms of whatever politics is going on.

A bridge is unlikely since there are planning height restrictions at that end of the circuit related the airport. A permanent bridge would almost certainly be an impossibility without lowering the track significantly. (Hmm, now that could be interesting ...)

The width of the tunnel, and therefore the short section of re-surfaced track, is no more then 25 - 30ft I would estimate. Past that the run-off area is at full previous width so far as I can tell.

Various reports of lack of toilet facilities are now entirely accurate. So far as I could see only the facilities at bar up above Schwantz curve were boarded up last weekend. Since the bar was not open this was hardly a surprise. I noted that the bar now has a useful decking area alongside and that there is a rather handy disabled spectator platform (access via 2 ramps) with an excellent sound system high up on the bank above the Old Hairpin. Credit for improvements where it is due.

I think the original reports of closed facilities were related to work that seemed to be going on at the end of last season concerning the underlying infrastructure of drains, pipework and, possibly, cabling

Out of season construction traffic would not need to pass through the tunnel since access directly to the construction area from Coppice Corner would be possible. Indeed since the plans call for demolition of the existing Exhibition Centre there will be an enormous gap in the wall around the circuit right next to where most of the construction will be taking place. With the re-alignment off the Wheatcroft Straight being a prime influence over the construction work for the pits complex there would be little point in trying to do much right now. Indeed not much point until the larger Bike meetings for 2009 are out of the way.

The Motocross track is mostly just earth. It was built in a few weeks and can be re-purposed in even less time.

The calender suggests that the active season will be concluded (MSA imposed inactivity not withstanding) by the end of September. So some weeks earlier than usual. This should provide for a full 6 months of zero track activity during which the initial major phase of construction, with ready open access from several points, could be undertaken. All access points would be close to where the development work is being undertaken.

All of that said I have to see the tunnel as a potential problem requiring further work if only because the huge transporters may still struggle with the current configuration and the slope from and to the outside of the circuit. I assume someone has done the measurements but you never know. Access is barred anyway so there is no way to have a close look. (Unless you are a marshal of course ... Or maybe the driver I saw spin off into the gravel under the yellows during the MGCC meeting. Presumably boredom kicked in.)

I have no expertise related to the construction industry. However I would observe that the existing pits complex was substantially remodeled during the normal short off season a few years ago with a smallish budget so I would think that an early end to the 2009 season and a later than usual start to 2010 starting with a groundwork prepared new site should not be an impossible task.

One other current benefit is that with most of the old industrial buildings alongside the current pits and paddock area having been flattened, the paddock area seems positively spacious compared to previous years.

I am not trying to suggest in any of this that there may not be problems with the plans (no comment about the finances either) but just trying point out that things need not appear as dark as they do, at least in terms of time scales for completing the construction work expected by 2010.

As other have commented I can think of a few worse places (or at least as problematic) at circuits around the UK and in the rest of the world that seem to be perfectly acceptable to those who license them so I wonder what is really going on here.

It's sort of ironic that the calender seems to have fewer Bike club meetings than in previous years yet the ACU seems to have OKed the track. Maybe they will be able to take up some of the newly available weekends.

All IMHO of course.

Grant

Al Weyman · 10 Apr 2009, 15:35 (Ref:2438122)

I just spoke with someone who was entered for a race on the 18/19th April and he told me that meeting has been shelved and rescheduled for Silverstone.

**Peter Mallett** · 10 Apr 2009, 15:54 (Ref:2438130)

Quote:

Originally Posted by grantp

A few observations from a spectator at both of last weekend's events.
...................................................Grant

Welcome Grant. Good post and a great counterpoint to the nay sayers.

grantp · 10 Apr 2009, 16:37 (Ref:2438157)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Welcome Grant. Good post and a great counterpoint to the nay sayers.

Thank you Peter.

It's been so long since my first post I couldn't actually recall if I had registered!

Let me just reiterate that I have some doubts like most others I have spoken to who have any interest in the matter. This is, after all, 21st century GB Plc we are working in and its overall track record is poor on a number of fronts but I still believe that smaller organisations can, if allowed to, deliver a lot in a short period of time.

That is (or at least was) what F1 used to be about. If a component broke someone would re-design it, get it manufactured and have a new one for the next race. All sorts of things could be done in little time where there was a will to do it. Personally I would be much happier to see people smoothing paths than building obstacles but our 'leaders' in all areas of our lives seems to have a different set of views and standards.

Grant

Piglet · 11 Apr 2009, 10:35 (Ref:2438512)

I'm told by a good source that the ACU have withdrawn the bike licence.

The MSVR meeting has been cancelled by MSVR who have not been given any assurance that the Circuit will be licenced by next weekend.

The meeting is 95% likely to run at Silverstone next Sunday (is that the 19th?) instead, it will include GT Cup, Lotus, PBMW & TTRS so should be a good meeting.

mosler lover · 11 Apr 2009, 14:55 (Ref:2438596)

If it helps, I took these pictures of the tunnel works;

http://1.2.3.11/bmi/farm4.static.fli...baee6944_m.jpg

http://1.2.3.11/bmi/farm4.static.fli...03c6b4db_m.jpg

http://1.2.3.12/bmi/farm4.static.fli...d1c5b067_m.jpg

Burnsie · 11 Apr 2009, 15:14 (Ref:2438602)

The links to the photographs aren't working for me...

I'd be very interested to see them though, having read Marcus Pye's column in this week's Autosport where he said that the event shouldn't have gone ahead at all.

**Peter Mallett** · 11 Apr 2009, 15:42 (Ref:2438852)

Didn't work for me either.

redshoes · 11 Apr 2009, 15:58 (Ref:2438861)

Try these

http://www.flickr.com/photos/haddonsman/3430991185/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/haddonsman/3430991039/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/haddonsman/3431804658/

**Peter Mallett** · 11 Apr 2009, 16:10 (Ref:2438876)

Thanks Redshoes. I do think there is a possibility of a mountain and molehill thing here based purely upon the pics. But it has to be said, if they'd paid to have a longer tunnel, they'd be getting race revenue. Go figure, as they say.

Burnsie · 11 Apr 2009, 16:30 (Ref:2438886)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

I do think there is a possibility of a mountain and molehill thing here based purely upon the pics.

I was thinking the same thought... but having said that, the MSA licence was granted to Donington in its previous state. I suspect that if a car collided with the temporary barriers, there would be an issue over whether or not any insurance policies would be valid. This was one of the arguments put forward by Charlie Whiting when the Michelin-shod F1 teams asked for a chicane to be installed at Indianapolis in 2005.

terence · 11 Apr 2009, 17:02 (Ref:2438896)

I very much doubt that any older version of the track insurance would be valid.God rest the British GP,but then again,would it be such a bad thing if we didn't have this charade on these shores?,I think not.All in all I think it was a very brave attempt to keep the GP here,somehow,I dont see it happening though,still,this year should be an absolute sell out for Silverstone.

compte deGraves · 12 Apr 2009, 08:40 (Ref:2439155)

Quote:

Originally Posted by terence bower

I very much doubt that any older version of the track insurance would be valid.God rest the British GP,but then again,would it be such a bad thing if we didn't have this charade on these shores?,I think not.All in all I think it was a very brave attempt to keep the GP here,somehow,I don't see it happening though,still,this year should be an absolute sell out for Silverstone.

Terence, That starts a very interesting line of thought. If the British loose their GP will, for example, the Silverstone Classic profit? Starved of a corporate entertaining opportunity will people flock to see the GP cars of yesteryear and will the heady days of the Coy's festival return with bells on?

terence · 12 Apr 2009, 10:20 (Ref:2439189)

One can live in hope Comte,it would be a wonderfull opportunity for Silverstone,get this years GP out of the way and then look at getting something up and running that would put GW in the shade,how it used to be.Lets face it,the GP circus is just that.How often do you get to see a "race" these days? Most of the drivers are aware of the result the day before! Personally,I could'nt care less if the GP doe's only run at Bernies chosen cash cow venues.

grantp · 12 Apr 2009, 12:16 (Ref:2439258)

**Peter Mallett** · 12 Apr 2009, 12:41 (Ref:2439264)

Whilst I don't necessarily see an issue with the outside of the track, because the barrier runs to the limit of the gravel trap, the inside barrier is too close.

BTW. Is that Maggie's Smart car in one of those pics?

grantp · 12 Apr 2009, 14:14 (Ref:2439298)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Whilst I don't necessarily see an issue with the outside of the track, because the barrier runs to the limit of the gravel trap, the inside barrier is too close.

BTW. Is that Maggie's Smart car in one of those pics?

Peter,

Is that a comment about the post I made with several photo links (one probably including a Smart car) which does not seem to have appeared as yet? I assume it is still in the moderation queue?

If not then ignore this and I'll leave it the next check until later tonight. Recent weather means the grass cutter (temperamental 4 stroke thing) needs to be chivvied into action for the rest of the afternoon ...

Edit: Judging by the speed at which this came through I would guess not. I wonder if something else happened to it? Quite possible as I am working across 2 machines today ...

Grant

grantp · 12 Apr 2009, 14:31 (Ref:2439309)

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