LMDh (DPi regulations version 2.0)

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by joeb

Will the Lambo use the same engine as Porsche and Audi? Didn't see that in the article, but seems most likely.

I'm interested to see how different the bodywork will be between the 3 makes. If they all look different (and good) then I think the engine similarities can be overlooked...... by some of us.

They were rumored to be using the engine that's already shared in the SUVs. But I'll put money down on the same engine across the line.

[S griffin]

Why would they have the same as an SUV? Really quite strange if true, unless they know something we don't

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Why would they have the same as an SUV?

Possibly for the same reason the engine in the Urus is the same unit in a number of VAG cars including:

Audi RS6, RS7, S8
Porsche Panamera,
Bentley Continental GT,

An engine used in an SUV can also be used in many other vehicle types with no issue if mapped properly.

[tux]

Such a shame. Id have loved a Lambo V10 in a prototype. Still, hopefully it looks different at least. Variety is the spice of life and all that...

[S griffin]

Yeah I do miss that. Hopefully someone like Lambo will be back, but it’s not looking like happening soon sadly. But there’s still enough different chassis and manufacturers to keep the series healthy

[crmalcolm]

We're starting to get a lot of strong reports that Lamborghini are all but confirmed for an LMDh programme - or more accurately, they have a programme but just need a little bit of customer integration to complete the entry.

'RACER has learned the Italian supercar constructor will become IMSA’s sixth LMDh manufacturer after recently greenlighting a factory prototype program in the upcoming hybrid formula due to start in 2023. The Lamborghini Squadra Corse effort is primed to debut in 2024 and will have a heavy emphasis on customer integration.'

“We are not 100 percent over the line, I can confirm that, but if I was to say we’re 90 percent of the way there, that would be pretty accurate,” Lamborghini senior motorsport manager Chris Ward told RACER. “We’ve got a couple of I’s to dot and T’s to cross with a couple of the main providers.

“That’s what has separated us from a lot of the manufacturers; historically, we don’t go factory racing in the way that you might see Porsche or others go factory racing. To get us all the way there, it’s going to take a customer effort behind it.

“But we’re in a fortunate position as a manufacturer to have the relationships and individuals among our existing and growing portfolio that could help us achieve that. So those are the elements that we’ve got to really get over the line with to make sure that it’s 100 percent.”

[S griffin]

Actually thinking about I’m not surprised, this series could really help their brand. We’ll have to wait and see. Might have to wait till 2023, but that shouldn’t be a problem. Thanks for that, let’s listen out for further news. Great news for the series if true

[canaglia]

http://www.dailysportscar.com/2021/0...a-and-wec.html

2023 le mans will be epic!
toyota vs peugeot vs ferrari vs audi vs porsche vs cadillac vs (hopefully) bmw

[J Jay]

Something tells me this would have been announced right after Le Mans, if not for a certain Ferrari...

Really pleased in particular to see WEC confirmed, and for AXR to be involved.

[joeb]

Makes me wonder if they had already come up with this render months ago, or if they were "inspired" by the Peugeot?

[broadrun96]

As said over on the other thread, it feels like they were ready but wanted their own spotlight. And what Cadillac wants to put in the back of the car, ECR has been let go as supplier and they didn't announce what they'll use. Odds on it being turbo'd and related, at least in marketing terms, to a street product?

[seanyb505]

Am I dumb or aren't lmdh to be based on p2 chassis? Me thinks that whole no wing is not going to make it to the Cadillac dallara. If anything I'm expecting a facelifted current caddy. With maybe a blackwing tie in? But I think that ship may have sailed by the time a motorsport program could fully leverage that engine.

[broadrun96]

They have not yet spec'd the P2 chassis on which the LMDh will be built. It appears they are building the LMDh chassis and then removing what is needed, likely less power and some suspension "downgrade" (for lack of a better term).

That said, chances of no rear wing seem low but everyone who thinks that render is anywhere near the final product raise their hand, I have a great deal on a bridge for you

[joeb]

Originally Posted by seanyb505

Am I dumb or aren't lmdh to be based on p2 chassis? Me thinks that whole no wing is not going to make it to the Cadillac dallara. If anything I'm expecting a facelifted current caddy. With maybe a blackwing tie in? But I think that ship may have sailed by the time a motorsport program could fully leverage that engine.

I have been questioning this the whole time. We (fans) don't know what the next set of P2 regs are, but somehow Porsche will be testing their car this winter that is based on said P2 car? Perhaps it is easy enough for the 4 chassis suppliers to learn some basic info from the ACO and then just make the tubs to the correct dimensions. I don't know if the LMdH are supposed to run the P2 spec suspensions and electronics, or if that is free for the manufacturers to decide.

But it appears what we wont see is something like the current Acura, where they take an Oreca and just throw an additional piece of carbon fiber on the front. Sounds like the manufacturers will have to come up with all of the bodywork for their designs.

[canaglia]

next gen lmp2 will be designed in 4:1 like LMH, according to this manufacturers should have more freedom but considering lmp2 are made to be sold to private teams I think next-gen lmp2 will be as less complex as possible aero/chassis wise.
It's up to lmdh manufacturers to change and update the package starting from the lmp2 chassis, but I don't think we will see radical designs from the basic package... to make it simple, a peugeot-like car it's extremely unlikely for a lmdh.
Anyway considering porsche and audi started working with multimatic since early 2020 and according to some rumors WV bought exclusives rights for that chassis, I think porsche/audi multimatic lmdh could be a more "customized" car than bmw and cadillac which it seems are still on early development stage.

[Pandamasque]

Originally Posted by joeb

I have been questioning this the whole time. We (fans) don't know what the next set of P2 regs are, but somehow Porsche will be testing their car this winter that is based on said P2 car? Perhaps it is easy enough for the 4 chassis suppliers to learn some basic info from the ACO and then just make the tubs to the correct dimensions. I don't know if the LMdH are supposed to run the P2 spec suspensions and electronics, or if that is free for the manufacturers to decide.

But it appears what we wont see is something like the current Acura, where they take an Oreca and just throw an additional piece of carbon fiber on the front. Sounds like the manufacturers will have to come up with all of the bodywork for their designs.

I'm starting to fear that 2023 LMDh tubs and 2024 LMP2 tubs are actually 2017 LMP2 tubs with a fresh homologation sticker.

Originally Posted by canaglia

next gen lmp2 will be designed in 4:1 like LMH

I'm yet to see anything from a reliable source, let alone official, to confirm this. If you have links please share.

[J Jay]

From a Gibson article in the September issue of Racecar Engineering. Mostly about LMP2 obviously, but here are the relevant bits:

- With the current LMP2 cars staying past LMDh's introduction (2024 to 2023 respectively), the expectation is for any initial LMDh cars "to be adapted to LMP2 spec [afterwards]."
- The FIA/ACO "have not even started to think about the new [LMP2] regulations, other than that the 'spine' of the car, the chassis, will be LMDh specification."

Those are less than encouraging quotes.

[chernaudi]

IMO, it's pretty obvious that just as last gen LMP1 and LMP2 shared chassis regs as far as tub design and crash standards, the same will probably apply between LMH/LMDH and LMP2.


Also strictly my opinion, VAG are using a modified form of the model that Audi Sport used to use with Dallara and YCom. Basically, Audi Sport would design the car (R8, R10, R15, whatever R18 variant), and would have Dallara or YCom build the actual tubs under a subcontractor deal. Peugeot also did the same in the 908 days.


Biggest difference is that the Multimatic chassis will be shared between two (possibly three) Volkswagen Group manufacturers/motorsports organizations (Audi Sport, Porsche Motorsport and possibly Lamborghini), and though the basic chassis will also (or should, at least in theory) be used as the base for a basic LMP2 design, I do expect that the Multimatic chassis as far as VAG goes will be highly proprietary to them. Especially given that Volkswagen Group has an exclusivity agreement with Multimatic as things stand.

[chernaudi]

Originally Posted by J Jay

From a Gibson article in the September issue of Racecar Engineering. Mostly about LMP2 obviously, but here are the relevant bits:

- With the current LMP2 cars staying past LMDh's introduction (2024 to 2023 respectively), the expectation is for any initial LMDh cars "to be adapted to LMP2 spec [afterwards]."
- The FIA/ACO "have not even started to think about the new [LMP2] regulations, other than that the 'spine' of the car, the chassis, will be LMDh specification."

Those are less than encouraging quotes.

Given that the ACO have given little thought as of yet to what will replace current LMP2 (as well as the fact that LMDH will be introduced before the next gen LMP2s are), either the LMP2s will be watered down LMDH cars, or maybe the ACO might throw a curve ball and have LMP2 and LMDH chassis tech regs separate, which would defeat the purpose of LMDH being basically DPI on steroids and being a universal IMSA/WEC/LM class, let alone LMDH/LMP2 sharing common chassis regs.


Granted, I can see LMP2 being similar to LMH/LMDH tech regs as far as 1030+kg minimum weight, have to fit in a 2000x5000x1150mm box as far as width, length and height, and sharing crash and construction standards. Beyond that, little else is set in stone, and not even what I just said should be taken as the gospel at this stage.


However, if that comes to pass that LMDH will directly influence LMP2 regs, I don't see that as a bad thing. With OEM help, maybe Multimatic, Ligier and Dallara, and even Oreca, can build better quality cars, and there be decent competition in the LMP2 market place instead of it being a quasi-spec Oreca class be default.

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by Pandamasque

I'm starting to fear that 2023 LMDh tubs and 2024 LMP2 tubs are actually 2017 LMP2 tubs with a fresh homologation sticker.


I'm yet to see anything from a reliable source, let alone official, to confirm this. If you have links please share.

it's impossible because lmdh will have same size of LMH, so a different wheelbase requires a different tub. As consequence lmp2 tubs will be different.
For the rest, there is google.
Some time ago max angelelli now working for dallara told in an interview that new lmp2 tubs will be really different from the actual ones and everything will be made starting from zero.
Of course none else has the same know how of oreca, maybe only multimatic is the one that gets closer, so I think that also for lmp2 next gen oreca will have the upper hand and most share of business.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by J Jay

From a Gibson article in the September issue of Racecar Engineering. Mostly about LMP2 obviously, but here are the relevant bits:

- With the current LMP2 cars staying past LMDh's introduction (2024 to 2023 respectively), the expectation is for any initial LMDh cars "to be adapted to LMP2 spec [afterwards]."
- The FIA/ACO "have not even started to think about the new [LMP2] regulations, other than that the 'spine' of the car, the chassis, will be LMDh specification."

Those are less than encouraging quotes.

With all the interest in LMdH and Hypercar from manufacturers, I wonder if the ACO is just hoping people will be able to buy those chassis and then they can develop a pro/am class with those cars?

Originally Posted by canaglia

it's impossible because lmdh will have same size of LMH, so a different wheelbase requires a different tub. As consequence lmp2 tubs will be different.
For the rest, there is google.
Some time ago max angelelli now working for dallara told in an interview that new lmp2 tubs will be really different from the actual ones and everything will be made starting from zero.
Of course none else has the same know how of oreca, maybe only multimatic is the one that gets closer, so I think that also for lmp2 next gen oreca will have the upper hand and most share of business.

Yes, i'm guessing the new LMdH/P2 chasses will have larger dimensions to be more similar to what we see with hypercar.

[Pandamasque]

Originally Posted by joeb

With all the interest in LMdH and Hypercar from manufacturers, I wonder if the ACO is just hoping people will be able to buy those chassis and then they can develop a pro/am class with those cars?

That's where I'd like to see things going. Have Hypercar, a Pro-Am subdivision within Hypercar (like LMP2 Pro-Am within LMP2) and GT cars. That's it.
Whereas ELMS and AsLMS would be only Pro-Am Hypercar + LMP3 + GT with an extra year or two of grandfathered LMP2 cars in the mix.

While non-hybrid P2 versions of these cars will be less expensive to buy and run, their attractiveness and residual value will be hugely undermined because they're not winning overall and the brands are not as interesting for collectors, as the same car with a Porsche badge would be. Why bother? Especially since LMP3 does pretty much the same thing at a fraction of the cost.

[Gingers4Justice]

Originally Posted by Pandamasque

That's where I'd like to see things going. Have Hypercar, a Pro-Am subdivision within Hypercar (like LMP2 Pro-Am within LMP2) and GT cars. That's it.

What would we call Hypercar Pro-Am? "Hyper" and "Amatuer" seem ever so slightly oxymoronic. So how about:

- A LittleLessHypercar
- ICantBelieveItsNotHypercar
- Calmercar
- Decorumcar

[seanyb505]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

What would we call Hypercar Pro-Am? "Hyper" and "Amatuer" seem ever so slightly oxymoronic. So how about:

- A LittleLessHypercar
- ICantBelieveItsNotHypercar
- Calmercar
- Decorumcar

I lost it lol

Anyway, I'm pretty sure all current renderings of radically different lmdh cars are more to generate buzz than showcase design direction.

I'm sure the current lmdh participants can get a lot of processes underway without a physical tub. But either the tub dimensions aren't changing but other aspects are for next gen P2, or designers have the new dimensions long before anything has been publicly published, or there's a lot of people twiddling their thumbs waiting for the french to decide stuff.

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

What would we call Hypercar Pro-Am? "Hyper" and "Amatuer" seem ever so slightly oxymoronic. So how about:

- A LittleLessHypercar
- ICantBelieveItsNotHypercar
- Calmercar
- Decorumcar

- Hypercar full pro line-up

- Hypercarbutlesshyperthanwhatyoureexpecting pro-am line-up

- Morelikekollesthanhyper full am line-up