Vettel To The Metal. Vettel/Webber/Hamilton incident.

[Alan Raine]

Originally Posted by staid davenport

Another point. Wasn't Mark Webber sick in his helmet at some point? Could his judgement have been impaired if he was feeling ill?

I wondered why he was going so well

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

The BBC are using the YouTube footage in their reports... Hmm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/moto...ne/7027743.stm

naughty naughty.

Originally Posted by staid davenport

Could someone please enlighten us to the exact rules for driving under the saftey car please.

The sporting regs are available from FIA.com and they are highlighted earlier in this thread.

Another point. Wasn't Mark Webber sick in his helmet at some point? Could his judgement have been impaired if he was feeling ill?

There is no inidcation that Mark drove oddly at that point. In terms of expressing his opinion is might have had an effect at the time maybe, but he (and others) have repeated this point of view again.

[Marbot]

This sort of thing will probably get a whole lot worse before it gets better.Too much money at stake.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Alan Raine

I wondered why he was going so well

Normally he's as "sick as a parrot" after the race.

[JamesH]

I wonder if LH's inexperience is the real cause of this - this was only his second F1 race in the wet, and if he has never been in the situation that Webber and the followers found themselves (i.e. torrential rain, heavy spray ,safety car etc) , he was probably unaware of how little visibilty was to be had, and therefor how his actions could be regarded as a little careless.

James

[davyboy]

Lewis could claim that its difficult/dangerous to drive 5 car lengths [or whatever it is] behind the safety car in extreme wet conditions because a] he may actually have less adhesion than the safety car and be unable to react as quickly and b] his vision is impaired.

His driving did appear eratic while behind the safety car but I'm sure McLaren have a bag load of reasons to explain it away. Its certainly not as black and white as Webber or Button make it out to be and I honestly don't know whether the footage from the grandstand makes his situation any more onerous than the live feed indicated... and the stewards didn't feel action needed to be taken on that basis.

Still, the more devious view would be that Bernie's stuck his **** stirrer in and inflamed a relatively inert event aware that the championship may be sown up this weekend and nobody will be looking at Interlagos on 21st.

[JamesH]

Actually having just viewed the YouTube video, I cannot see what all the fuss is about - Hamilton was way away from Webber and Vettel, slow, but Vettel trailing so close to Webber was the problem, nothing to do with Hamilton, barring the fact the seeing him over there was what caused Vettel to miss Webbers braking, which is entirely Vettels fault - he should have been paying more attention.

[Alan Raine]

Originally Posted by davyboy

Still, the more devious view would be that Bernie's stuck his **** stirrer in and inflamed a relatively inert event aware that the championship may be sown up this weekend and nobody will be looking at Interlagos on 21st.

I'm devious then

What's the betting that Hamilton has to start 10 places or even at the back of the grid.

Now if only I can find that Rat I'm smelling.

[mrsweety]

Is this all not a case of him being side by side with the SC? not too far away!

He nearly overtook it :-)

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by davyboy

Still, the more devious view would be that Bernie's stuck his **** stirrer in and inflamed a relatively inert event aware that the championship may be sown up this weekend and nobody will be looking at Interlagos on 21st.

Good forward thinking on BE's part.

No matter how many points the drivers may have,the title will always be decided at the last round.That shouldn't be too difficult to work into the sporting code.

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by Alan Raine

I'm devious then

What's the betting that Hamilton has to start 10 places or even at the back of the grid.

Now if only I can find that Rat I'm smelling.

Alan, based on what's happened already this year, I think what you say is exactly what's going to happen... with a Hamilton DQ from Japan to spice things up for Bernie.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Alan Raine

Now if only I can find that Rat I'm smelling.

Are you sure it's not a fish?

[Alan Raine]

Originally Posted by martyn bott

sporting code.

[Alan Raine]

Originally Posted by martyn bott

Are you sure it's not a fish?

Yes it's all a bit 'fishy'

[dazbaz_99]

Having viewed this 'video evidence' it would be a disgrace if Lewis is given anything more than a verbal warning, are the FIA forgetting he is a rookie?! Fernando's required 'miracle' may yet happen though I fear.

[Ralf's Girl]

I don't think it's anything to do with being a rookie - if it was, Vettel would have been let off for being inexperienced. That's what caused his error, but it doesn't make not paying attention to what's going on in front of you okay.

[BootsOntheSide]

The way Lewis went close to the safety car, then suddenly slowed, looked bad to me. Webber momentarily lead him, immediately before Vettel hit his car. Does anyone know for sure which inexperienced kid Mark was referring to in his infamous interview? Looking at the clip, I'd blame Lewis more than Vettel. I'm not sure how difficult it is to lead a field under safety car in the wet, but it's been done safely by several other drivers. A 10-place drop for China would be justifiable; disqualification from Japan probably not. Under the circumstances he's surely more deserving of a grid penalty than Vettel, who suffered several times over for his mistake.

[f1manoz]

Because Bernie wants his final GP showdown, I can see Hamilton losing his points and being moved down the grid in China.

Punishment wouldn't really fit the crime, but it would make good entertainment!

[Gt_R]

Is this reality TV or what?

If Lewis really had to be punished, do it because he deserves it. Not because Bernie wants a title fight.

Let the videos do the talking, let Webber and Vettel give statements... listen to the other drivers who experienced. If all those point to bad driving, then punish by all means. If not, leave Hamilton alone.

edit: seems like Webber and Button isn't too impressed.

[Ralf's Girl]

Originally Posted by Gt_R

Is this reality TV or what?

If Lewis really had to be punished, do it because he deserves it. Not because Bernie wants a title fight.

It may not be reality TV but it is the F1 circus, with Bernie as its ringmaster. If he wants a close title fight, he'll do his best to make sure he gets one.

[Gt_R]

Then one has to be glad he isn't running a country...

[Knowlesy]

Bernie also wants his rookie champion.

The decision taken will not be due to title fights I'm sure.

[Gaz]

Looking at the video there are grounds for complaint - when watching the race I felt Lewis' behaviour behind the safety car was a little controversial. I can see the reasons why he was doing it as he needed to warm the brakes up but the way he went about it looked a bit dangerous and probably had something to do with the shunt that put Webber and Vettel out.

My arguement would be that why has it taken 4 days for any complaint to be lodged? If its due to video footage only just being obtained then surely there must be a ruling that says any protest must be made within a given time limit from the chequered flag? Otherwise this could turn out to be ludicrous and events that happened months/years ago could be changed due to the fact new footage had suddenly turned up long after the event.

I don't believe that they will change the Fuji result however I am expecting Lewis to receive a 10 place grid penalty this weekend - it sets a precident about behaviour behind the safety car and also allows Bernie to keep the title race open until Brazil.

[willb]

looking at the video it does appear that hamilton did not abide by the regulations and keep within the 5 car length distance. also, it appears that he accellerated more than the safety car and then braked.
i can see either disqualification from japan or 10 places at the next race, but not both.
as for removing the youtube videos, i can see removing a video of a tv broadcast due to copyright laws, but not a personal video. i would have to do some further reading of the copyright laws.
found this on another site "While FOM can and does legitimately claim ownership of official Formula One broadcast footage, the copyright to private recordings is by law possessed by the owner of the recording device unless a separate agreement is reached."

[2fast]

There are 2 schools of thoughts here-

1. Vettle hit Webber- Vettle's fault.
2. Vettle hit Webber- Lewis's fault.

I think Poor vettle is at least 51% at fault no matter what. But the other 49% has be blamed on Lewis' driving. Not that he was erratic in his speed, but the fact that he went off, way off the line of path of the safty car. He was pratically off the track, and drop off speed as if he was coming to a full stop.

Let's say he did have a failure on the car, should Webber have followed right behind him and just waited there? no. So Lewis will be found quilty of unsafe driving behind safty car, and contribute to an accident. Fair punishment= 10 grid place down. Stripping him of the win is excessive and unlikely, because the victims are not championship contenders.