Goodwood 74th Member's Meeting

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by TimD

Perhaps this is another reason for keeping the Members Meeting as amateur as is possible - they seem to be more sympathetic to the machinery than the paid superstars.

I wouldn't agree that the above comment is correct across the board. There are some professional drivers who's handling of historic cars is both sympathetic mechanically and respectful of the (and other competitor's) bodywork!

Sometimes lack of seat time in a car must be a factor when a guest driver breaks something or is not being totally familiar with any handling 'quirks'....

Even at the level I've competed at, it takes time to really become at one with a car. Jumping into an unfamiliar one will always reveal its or my weaknesses!

[john ruston]

Interesting.My ramble!
The good drivers take about three laps to get used to a car.
Incidents have happened with all types of drivers from raw novice to F1 winners .
Usually a case of Goodwood red mist and they tend to forget where they are.
People can drive with a cross on the back as its not an international meeting.
Set minimum handicap times per car/driver and if any driver beats that time he goes home.
Draconian set of rules but keeps show on road which everyone wants.
Alternative is to follow old Monterey rules and any indiscretion drivers are stood down
They banned S Moss so it does get people's attention.
The single seater incident was two pedestrian drivers with one minding his own business and other getting out of shape.Pity but it's not only the quick boys who have problems.
Speed outweighs ability in most instances

[NICK ALLISON]

Monaco pre dates Goodwood by nineteen years.(1929 v 1948) Both have five days active motorsport a year .Both have successful historic racing.Both need to be treated with respect. Perhaps we should reflect and compare after the Monaco Historic Grand Prix in May.?

[Will Nuthall]

Originally Posted by NICK ALLISON

Monaco pre dates Goodwood by nineteen years.(1929 v 1948) Both have five days active motorsport a year .Both have successful historic racing.Both need to be treated with respect. Perhaps we should reflect and compare after the Monaco Historic Grand Prix in May.?

I'm just going to comment on this having not read the rest initially....

The Monaco circuit has been drastically modified for modern F1 use and made much safer (and very different) than it's original format.

Since you have bought up the comparison anyway, in my opinion, currently the Monaco circuit (the circuit itself, it's administration, procedures in the event of an accident, signalling etc etc) is far far safer than the current Goodwood circuit. And I say that for all involved the spectators, marshals, mechanics and drivers.

(John I am pretty sure it's national A and above only, as with the revival)

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by Will Nuthall

(John I am pretty sure it's national A and above only, as with the revival)

It is.

Can I just say that despite the doom and gloom from the posters on this thread, including me, I still enjoyed the weekend and the chance to chat with fellow enthusiasts in a relaxed atmosphere is one very important aspect? One gentleman always makes a point of looking me out just to wish me luck which is something you just don't get at other events.

Also the personnel from the circuit admin and paddock stewards to the scrutineers (I was fortunate not to meet any marshals officially) were pleasant and helpful.

Most if not all of my fellow competitors were there to enjoy themselves, including the "star" drivers within my vicinity who were genuinely interested in the cars.

Having dumped oil on his Lordship's hallowed tarmac (it was Tiff Sir!) I'm keeping my fingers crossed for an invite next year.

[zefarelly]

I concur . . .and have had exactly the same experiences first hand.

My priority was always to put on a good show (from presentation to performance) and not look a complete tit on the big stage. Of course when it did all go wrong it was all my fault.

Originally Posted by pomracer

I do not often post on the forum but felt compelled to do so, as I sense a degree of "amateur" driver bashing going on. I have competed at the Revival in the RAC TT three times and Shelby Cup once, so know what it is like to be an "amateur" surrounded by quick drivers and indeed having a 'name' share my car. The fact is that many if not most of the really big shunts that have happened at Goodwood in the last ten years have involved the professional drivers. I am talking here about seriously damaged cars and potentially life threatening crashes, and as I type this three or four incidents come to mind which did not involve other cars but were, very simply, the pro' drivers just pushing too hard and over cooking it. No backmarkers, no amateur drivers, just red mist. No need to name names - just get on Google or You tube.
As an "amateur" driver surrounded by big names and driving gods from past years, I never felt any pressure to push it because, well, you knew that when the flag dropped the pace would be faster than any other race you had done - the only pressure I felt at Goodwood , and it was a pressure, was not to f--- up (as I wanted to be invited again) and to finish the race. So I would suggest that in my case at least the Goodwood effect was positive.
I am now in danger of bashing the 'professionals', but I have been in the drivers changing room at the Revival and overheard some pretty remarkable conversations one of which has stayed with me ever since, and involved a discussion about an on track incident where two very well known names agreed not to dob each other in and to blame a backmarker....and of course when it came down to their word against the other poor hapless amateur , you can guess who got listened to.
Anyway, enough of that - just wanted to redress the balance a bit.

[tonylees]

My suggestion: All drivers should have to race a fast Edwardian car with only rear brakes - a bit like an 'H'ARDS test

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by tonylees

My suggestion: All drivers should have to race a fast Edwardian car with only rear brakes - a bit like an 'H'ARDS test

Think I'd rather watch you and your fellow Edwardians, Tony!

Well done in the S. F. Edge Trophy, btw.

[bauble]

Originally Posted by tonylees

My suggestion: All drivers should have to race a fast Edwardian car with only rear brakes - a bit like an 'H'ARDS test

Talking of 'star' drivers, Tony does tend to look down on most of his competitors.

[GORDON STREETER]

I did find a place to sleep for the day !

[zefarelly]

A romper suit is the best way to keep warm on a winter day too Gordon.

[Rudernst]

I had a very close look at the crash of the Lotus 18 that cartwheeled into the tunnel because it was/is my old car.

First observation:
that car was fitted with the sturdiest and most safely anchored roolover hoop that Peter Denty could come up with, i know because i had that work done
and this is the main reason that the driver came out of this releatively unscathed.
had the hoop collapsed, he would have died, as somebody has done in a Lotus 18 recently precisely for that reason remember ?

now to all you scaffolding grumblers: would you be able to face wife and kids of somebody who died just to please your aesthetic sensiblity ?
be careful what you wish for: it may come true

second observation
as to above assumption that lack of in car safety might lead to more responsible racing and inherently less danger for reasons of self preservation
that is WRONG !
the Lotus went very very slow, in fact so slow that a SPINNING Cooper could catch it, so it went slower in a straight line than the Cooper in his arc
so slow driving does not save you
no rollover protection just means more serious injury and death

third observation
the Lotus 18 (only) spun until it was launched first into a barrel roll and then the cartwheels by a straw bale.
there is the possibility that the barrel rolling and subsequent cartwheel flip would not have happened if that strawbale had not been there, just some more spins ending in the Lotus clouting the bank in the end
what i do wonder about is: are those strawbales there for the cars or the bikes ? and is their use described and/or regulated in the circuit license ?
remember: this was the first MM with bike racing

RE

[Marcus Mussa]

I understand that Michiel Smits crashed in the Bruce McLaren Trophy race because he was knocked out by the piece of bodywork that came off Marc Devis' Lola (cutting his hand in the process). I saw the accident from behind and I think Smits was very lucky to survive. Certainly saved by the tyre wall.

[midgetman]

Modern safety - the tyres - worked. Period safety - the straw bales - made things worse. You must draw your own conclusions about the theatre.

[GORDON STREETER]

Originally Posted by Marcus Mussa

I understand that Michiel Smits crashed in the Bruce McLaren Trophy race because he was knocked out by the piece of bodywork that came off Marc Devis' Lola (cutting his hand in the process). I saw the accident from behind and I think Smits was very lucky to survive. Certainly saved by the tyre wall.

That explains it then Marcus, as I said in an earlier post the race was red flagged as a car came in to the pit lane with bodywork missing and the driver got out holding his hand/wrist.

[zefarelly]

I've not commented on either of the 2 major incidents,they both appear to have been freak accidents and thankfully personnel damage is relatively minimal

There were plenty of other 'minor' incidents, which to my mind are the avoidable ones.

[grantp]

Originally Posted by bauble

Talking of 'star' drivers, Tony does tend to look down on most of his competitors.

Here we can see Tony looking over the side ensuring that there are no smaller competitors trying to sneak past on the inside line.

I am, however, a little suspicious about the seat. Note how the passenger side projects some way into the airstream. One might wonder if that is a deliberate adaptation that acts as a braking aid (Taking into consideration Tony's earlier comment.

[zefarelly]

We'll have to watch the Edwardian chaps closely, if it catches on, its only a matter of time before some cad turns up with 6pot callipers and carbon discs on the
rear

[GORDON STREETER]

Originally Posted by zefarelly

We'll have to watch the Edwardian chaps closely, if it catches on, its only a matter of time before some cad turns up with 6pot callipers and carbon discs on the
rear

Or electric motors in the hubs, it happens in top push bike races !!!!!

[bauble]

Originally Posted by GORDON STREETER

Or electric motors in the hubs, it happens in top push bike races !!!!!

PLEASE!!! Gordon, we purists do not refer to 'push bikes'. Just not on Old Chap dont'cha know?

Bauble ex-Edgware RC, BCCA, LCCA, BLRC.

[FISCracer]

I am glad to be able to tell you that Michiel Smits who was driving the T70 Spyder was discharged from hospital on Saturday and is now back home with his family in Eindhoven. He is expected to make a full recovery.

[Heightswitch]

Originally Posted by FISCracer

I am glad to be able to tell you that Michiel Smits who was driving the T70 Spyder was discharged from hospital on Saturday and is now back home with his family in Eindhoven. He is expected to make a full recovery.

Great news.
Neil.

[John Turner]

Excellent news.

[Colin McKay]

Given the debate on 10ths and elsewhere, it will be interesting to learn if the use of a FHR was a factor in the surprisingly (relatively) limited injuries at Goodwood.

[Brian A]

Originally Posted by Colin McKay

Given the debate on 10ths and elsewhere, it will be interesting to learn if the use of a FHR was a factor in the surprisingly (relatively) limited injuries at Goodwood.

As far as I know, the broken collar bone sustained by Stephen Bond in the Lotus 18 was NOT a result of the accident.

He landed in the entrance on the pedestrian tunnel hanging upside down, the injury was caused when he was released from his belts and fell down.......

or so the story goes.