Unfulfilled talents - those who never achieved potential? - Page 10

**chunterer** · 13 Dec 2007, 21:19 (Ref:2088220)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fan

Etiene van der Linde.

Funnily enough I was thinking about his name yesterday but forgot to post it?

He ended up doing random Italian 3000 races and faded from the scene. I thought he had a fantastic natural talent....

Think he faced people lke Danilo Rossi (whatever happened to the main man in karting for many years?) and Gianluca Calcgani, who ruined his own career by running into the back of people during a safety car period at Imola one year IIRC. Both of them had far more talent than they ever ended up showing.

**ghinzani** · 13 Dec 2007, 21:24 (Ref:2088223)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chunterer

...Gianluca Calcgani, who ruined his own career by running into the back of people during a safety car period at Imola one year IIRC. .

Was'nt that the abysmal Alex Gurney who pulled that stunt in F3000?

**chunterer** · 14 Dec 2007, 08:31 (Ref:2088510)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghinzani

Was'nt that the abysmal Alex Gurney who pulled that stunt in F3000?

Don't think it was Gurney but may have been another American driver, i'm not sure. This was an FIA 3000 race, maybe Imola '01? not an Italian round. There was an atrocious display of rubber necking when the flags came out after some guy had crashed somewhere near the Villeneuve chicane and people were still bombing round at racing speed including Calcgani (who IIRC had just been signed up by Flavio's lot) who promptly clattered into the back of the train.

I think he was the main driver to get singled out for silliness (allegedly).

ensign14 · 14 Dec 2007, 09:06 (Ref:2088549)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghinzani

Was'nt that the abysmal Alex Gurney who pulled that stunt in F3000?

No, much worse than that. Derek Hill. He missed the notification of safety cars and the yellow flags, but didn't miss half-a-dozen cars in the queue.

Graz · 14 Dec 2007, 09:35 (Ref:2088576)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ensign14

No, much worse than that. Derek Hill. He missed the notification of safety cars and the yellow flags, but didn't miss half-a-dozen cars in the queue.

I think history tends to prove racing is not necessarily in the genes. Sons of famous fathers who have raced have to date not generally been as good as their fathers. Nico Roberg looks like he might change this. The jury is out on Nelsinho IMO. What do others think of this generally?

davyboy · 14 Dec 2007, 09:39 (Ref:2088580)

Matthais Lauda and the Mansells would probably vindicate you there. Its probably worth starting a new thread on that... its a very interesting subject.

ensign14 · 14 Dec 2007, 09:56 (Ref:2088608)

Varies. Emerson Fittipaldi outraced his father. Dale Earnhardt ditto. Pretty tight between the Pettys and Ascaris.

Graz · 14 Dec 2007, 12:46 (Ref:2088716)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ensign14

Varies. Emerson Fittipaldi outraced his father. Dale Earnhardt ditto. Pretty tight between the Pettys and Ascaris.

The point I made was in overall terms, not just directly against their fathers if they are still racing as they will be considerably older and with respect past their best.

Graz · 14 Dec 2007, 12:47 (Ref:2088719)

Quote:

Originally Posted by davyboy

Matthais Lauda and the Mansells would probably vindicate you there. Its probably worth starting a new thread on that... its a very interesting subject.

Done!

**ghinzani** · 14 Dec 2007, 14:09 (Ref:2088782)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ensign14

No, much worse than that. Derek Hill. He missed the notification of safety cars and the yellow flags, but didn't miss half-a-dozen cars in the queue.

Sorry their collective poorness melds into one.

**chunterer** · 14 Dec 2007, 18:14 (Ref:2088959)

Anyway's enough of these average Joe's and back to the guys who showed potential but didn't fulfill it!

Not sure if I mentioned them already but how about these two drivers:

Spanish Opel Lotus driver, Victor Lopez - looked quick against the might of Barrichello, DC, De Ferran and Sospiri in 1990 then disappeared completely?

Alfonso Garcia De Vineusa was another one. Massively quick and looking very promising in F3000 in '87 until that horrendous shunt at Spa in practice IIRC. He was never the same after that.

Graz · 14 Dec 2007, 21:20 (Ref:2089049)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chunterer

Anyway's enough of these average Joe's and back to the guys who showed potential but didn't fulfill it!

Not sure if I mentioned them already but how about these two drivers:

Spanish Opel Lotus driver, Victor Lopez - looked quick against the might of Barrichello, DC, De Ferran and Sospiri in 1990 then disappeared completely?

Alfonso Garcia De Vineusa was another one. Massively quick and looking very promising in F3000 in '87 until that horrendous shunt at Spa in practice IIRC. He was never the same after that.

Someone else popped into my head based on above, never quite the same after a shunt (he's probably mentioned back the way) Mike Thackwell - he should have been great. What happened there? Had the pleasure of seeing him race a Ford Capri in the Phoenix Park in Ireland in 83 (same year as Donnelly was racing Irish FF2000 and the first time I saw a F1 car).

**ghinzani** · 15 Dec 2007, 09:35 (Ref:2089340)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graz

Someone else popped into my head based on above, never quite the same after a shunt (he's probably mentioned back the way) Mike Thackwell - he should have been great. What happened there? Had the pleasure of seeing him race a Ford Capri in the Phoenix Park in Ireland in 83 (same year as Donnelly was racing Irish FF2000 and the first time I saw a F1 car).

Long thread about it on Atlas, basically he's had a life outside of racing and now runs a kite and skateboard shop I believe.

nycuk · 17 Dec 2007, 12:58 (Ref:2090498)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chunterer

Anyway's enough of these average Joe's and back to the guys who showed potential but didn't fulfill it!

Not sure if I mentioned them already but how about these two drivers:

Spanish Opel Lotus driver, Victor Lopez - looked quick against the might of Barrichello, DC, De Ferran and Sospiri in 1990 then disappeared completely?

Alfonso Garcia De Vineusa was another one. Massively quick and looking very promising in F3000 in '87 until that horrendous shunt at Spa in practice IIRC. He was never the same after that.

Diego Castro Santos - very quick in Opel Euroseries in the early '90s. Quit to become a golf pro as I recall.

Sandro Spoladori - dominated the early rounds of the same series, '94. Won at Imola just after Ratzenbergers fatal accident, then quit the sport the next day after Senna's.

Richard Westbrook - same series, same era. Obviously doing well in Porsches now but could probably have gone all the way in F1. He had the measure of Jarno Trulli in F3.

D-Type · 17 Dec 2007, 13:07 (Ref:2090506)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graz

I think history tends to prove racing is not necessarily in the genes. Sons of famous fathers who have raced have to date not generally been as good as their fathers. Nico Roberg looks like he might change this. The jury is out on Nelsinho IMO. What do others think of this generally?

It varies. It's a little like the contention that younger brothers are usually better as the've grown up having to be a more comitted competitor than their sibling.
This merits a thread in its own right as the issues are too complex to address in a couple of asides.

davyboy · 17 Dec 2007, 13:47 (Ref:2090533)

Quote:

Originally Posted by D-Type

It varies. It's a little like the contention that younger brothers are usually better as the've grown up having to be a more comitted competitor than their sibling.
This merits a thread in its own right as the issues are too complex to address in a couple of asides.

Snap ! I suggested that to Graz and here's the thread he set up. A fascinating insight from Gregor Marshall in it too... right from the horse's mouth so to speak.

http://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=102717

**ghinzani** · 17 Dec 2007, 15:01 (Ref:2090567)

Oscar Laurrari - major talent, major miss in my opinion. If the Falklands war had'nt happened the year he dominated Euro F3 then he would hvae gone a long way - there was talk of a Ferrari test contract.

ensign14 · 17 Dec 2007, 16:14 (Ref:2090608)

Hm, never really thought about him but interesting call. After all, he didn't get outclassed by Second Coming Modena in the Eurobrun despite missing a few years of single seater racing. I'd thought it more a reflection on Modena, but maybe Popi was indeed worthy of consideration.

(Or did you pick him cos his helmet was not dissimilar to that of Peter Charles?

)

davyboy · 17 Dec 2007, 16:33 (Ref:2090628)

Duplicate post

davyboy · 17 Dec 2007, 16:33 (Ref:2090630)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghinzani

Oscar Laurrari - major talent, major miss in my opinion. If the Falklands war had'nt happened the year he dominated Euro F3 then he would hvae gone a long way - there was talk of a Ferrari test contract.

I'm wondering why the Falklands war would have put the kibosh on a test drive at Ferrari though. Italy wasn't exactly jumping up and down in support of Britain back then, which was rather naughty of them.

**ghinzani** · 17 Dec 2007, 16:49 (Ref:2090639)

I think it was more a case of the bread drying up. If you look at his record in the Brun 956s, the Renault Alpine, even the unloved Lola T950 he was generally very good. I saw him stack a 956 at Silverstone in 87 and then across the track at Woodcote to try and get in another Team Brun car, I remember someone commentating that his hair had gone white during the crash!! I think he was just grey early tho...

I thought his helmet design a bit Emerson/South American generic actually. Did'nt thye all get their lids done by a bloke called 'Sid' ??

nycuk · 20 Dec 2007, 15:27 (Ref:2092724)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghinzani

I thought his helmet design a bit Emerson/South American generic actually. Did'nt thye all get their lids done by a bloke called 'Sid' ??

Sid Mosca

http://www.sidmosca.com.br/

**ghinzani** · 20 Dec 2007, 17:09 (Ref:2092811)

Quote:

Originally Posted by nycuk

Sid Mosca

http://www.sidmosca.com.br/

Cool - at least some the brain cells are still intact..

gfm · 5 Jan 2008, 15:07 (Ref:2100118)

Tom Walkinshaw, has someone suggested him before?
I drove for him for a few years and if ever there was a guy who you'd pit against ANYONE to race, it would be he.
Very tough, very strong, built like a brickbrickhouse.
You'd put money on him winning a 24 Hours race single handedly if it were possible.
His cars came across as a little light on brakes, but they weren't. They just needed a good push. Not that he braked much ...
A very gritty performer who turned to the management side pretty early on.

davyboy · 5 Jan 2008, 15:26 (Ref:2100131)

Care to reveal your identity John ?

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