When should Michael Schumacher retire?

[ASCII Man]

I found it quite exciting too.
I would find juggling chainsaws very exciting as well.

Also setting myself on fire would be very exciting.

Warm too.

[Super Hans]

It was exciting in a watch-through-your-fingers kind of way. Of all the things people get wound-up about on here I'm surprised at some members' casual attitude towards such an obviously reckless and offensive piece of driving.

[BootsOntheSide]

Schumacher hasn't looked good all year. Not only is he well off the pace, but his driving standards when being overtaken have been worse than ever. He's only served to emphasise why he had an over-aggressive reputation in his heyday. If he's got any humility at all he'll get out of the car ASAP before he completely destroys his reputation - he's not go hope of challenging for the 2011 title no matter how good the car is.

[pannenmann]

Originally Posted by Kempi

Btw, according to German media TGF has meanwhile apologized and said himself that the move was a bit too harsh.

Could be another sign he is growing old. He used to take years for apologies.

Might be that in the past he did these things and benefited from it, so his fans and some observers were rather forgiving. Now there's not a outcome that would "justify" what he did. Plus even the German audience can't be fooled anymore by ridiculous explanations (Wasser seems to concentrate on justifying anything Vettel messes up nowadays), his golden times in terms of his fanbase are over too. The whole RTL crew including Lauda finding very clear words for his actions leaves nothing but bad PR even in Germany. So the Merc-PR department had a talk with Michael I suppose and hope. Another unpleasant situation he has to get used to. Actually in his late days, he probably has to learn more than ever.

[Super Hans]

Something for the apologists to look at.

[strider]

Originally Posted by Super Hans

Something for the apologists to look at.

I saw a larger version of that photo and a couple of others in GPWeek yesterday (download free from http://www.gpweek.com)

It's far more graphic than the TV pictures and totally damning. A ban for anything from one to three races would have been the only appropriate punishment.

[ASCII Man]

Didn't the FIA used to ban drivers for trivial offences like overtaking on the formation lap?
Whatever happened to that?

Or do they just do that to make the championship artificially exciting?



I would give him a one race ban, at least.

[garcon]

In terms of any prospect of gaining points, a ten place grid penalty is effectively a race ban.

I can't help thinking there's an awful lot of people jumping on the usual anti-Schumacher bandwagon here, in terms of the vitriol and ridiculous punishment suggestions.

This article sums it up a little more reasonably. Had there been time, he could well have been black flagged. As it is, the punishment given seems appropriate. And clearly having seen the footage for himself, Schumacher has accepted it was more dangerous than he intended and that the punishment was deserved.

As for when he should retire, the less blinkered F1 watchers will have seen/heard that he has no plans to hang up his gloves just yet, and along with the team is now concentrating on being competitive next season. That will be the true acid test.

[strider]

I still think that a race ban would have been a more appropriate penalty because if he continues to defend his position as robustly as he has done so far this season, Hungary being the worst example, there is every chance of an accident and we have Spa and Italy coming up and they are very fast circuits.

However, it appears from this that a ten place grid penalty was the most severe penalty the stewards could apply, short of having time to black flag him.

Yes, it will be probably be enough to keep him out of the points, although Kobayashi's drive last weekend shows it is not a certainty, which is why I would prefer to see him out of the action.

[GolddustMini]

when was the last time a driver was black flagged during an f1 race? montoya for missing the red light in the pitlane? any other incidences for poor driving?

[Lola]

Originally Posted by GolddustMini

when was the last time a driver was black flagged during an f1 race? montoya for missing the red light in the pitlane? any other incidences for poor driving?

Ah but that was Montoya. He had a penalty for breathing!
..........or when it looked like he was about to beat a Ferrari or that German bloke.

[Born Racer]

It was very bad, but it wouldn't have run to so many pages on a thread were it not one Michael Schumacher.

It's not surprising to see Schumacher do it, is it? What IS surprising is how slow he is. Why? Why? Why? He is so slow now!

Originally Posted by Super Hans

I doubt Schumacher will be on the grid.

I think he'll continue to the end of 2010 before gracefully conceding that his time has passed

Quoting Super Hans from another thread, I'm not sure he'll gracefully concede publicly that his time has passed. I think Mercedes will sack him, but there will be a cover-up about them having done that.

[strider]

Allegedly, this is the main reason why Schumacher is so slow.

But there was a time when he could drive around any problem and Rosberg seems to be coping...

[Knowlesy]

Of course it creates more reaction because it is TGF. Because he always bloody does it!

The annoyance doesn't lessen over time just because it is common.

It isn't some anti-TGF thing at all. Anyone pulling that stunt would get a lot of stick and I foresee more of the same from Vettel in future.

[Marbot]

Looking at the above photo, Ruben's would have been right when he says that Schumacher would have probably come off worst.

[beau1]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

Of course it creates more reaction because it is TGF. Because he always bloody does it!

The annoyance doesn't lessen over time just because it is common.

It isn't some anti-TGF thing at all. Anyone pulling that stunt would get a lot of stick and I foresee more of the same from Vettel in future.

I remember hamilton forcing people of the track in 07-08 the excuse always was he didnt see them or he didnt mean to. Did he get punished?

[Marbot]

Schumacher nearly black-flagged, but not enough time left to do it.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/85838

[Knowlesy]

I too remember him doing it a couple of times, albeit nowhere near as extreme!

He has thankfully got better. And please don't raise the Petrov/Malaysia non-event.

[KSR88]

Originally Posted by Marbot

Schumacher nearly black-flagged, but not enough time left to do it.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/85838

OK. So how did the officials have time to review and dish out a penalty to Vettel? Essentially taking the race win from him. MS was already lapped when he committed his foul!
Just more BS from stewards. How did Varsha and Hobbs know very quickly from the replays that it was grossly out of line? He drove a guy off the track-very clear from the very first replay-dish out the penalty. Indycar didn't let grass grow on Helio.
The "other" factors were at work in F1.......the racing would be served much better if the stewards would make up their mind instead of seeking permission. Minor infraction--let the guy that got screwed thru and on with the race. Major in fraction-- a drive thru------attempted murder--a stop and go. Where they are in the race is just not a factor to rule enforcement.

[mattt]

Originally Posted by KSR88

OK. So how did the officials have time to review and dish out a penalty to Vettel? Essentially taking the race win from him. MS was already lapped when he committed his foul!
Just more BS from stewards. ...

Since Vettels incident happened before half way in the race and the Schumacher/Barrichello happened a lap before the end of the race.

[sparkione]

It was absolutely premeditatedly dangerous and wreckless

Yes, mercifully wreckless. But definitely reckless.

[KSR88]

Originally Posted by mattt

Since Vettels incident happened before half way in the race and the Schumacher/Barrichello happened a lap before the end of the race.

You might want to review your facts. Vettel was penalized after the restart--which was early in the race. You might recall Webber went along was on the option tires to build a gap to win the race. Point being it took very little time for the stewards to tell Red Bull they were penalized. Shumachers incident did not happen on the last lap! It was on 66 of 70! They went three laps after the incident---the review notice went across my screen--in fact virtually the same timing as Helios incident.

[beau1]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

I too remember him doing it a couple of times, albeit nowhere near as extreme!

He has thankfully got better. And please don't raise the Petrov/Malaysia non-event.

Nowhere near as extreme, but still worth a punishment? You can make a similar list of 'what ifs' by pushing an F1 car on to the grass than you can by pushing a car near to a wall.

The Petrov incident was bad enough in my eyes, you can argue that he was 'breaking the tow' all you want but the last time I saw an F1 deviate 4-5 times across a track like he did, it was called weaving.

Oh and for what its worth, I think there is a huge amount of anti-Schumacher feeling, it is apparent on and off these forums. A lot of people have a go at Schumacher and feel sorry for Rubens about Austria 2002, whereas it was an equal team order. People seem to forget that it was Rubens who then decided to stay with the team until 2004 because he was 'soooo unhappy' right? That is anti-Schumacher.
When he cried after breaking Senna's record, people claimed that he was faking it, that is Anti-Schumacher.
It goes on and has always gone on and is going on with this incident.

[mattt]

Originally Posted by mattt

Since Vettels incident happened before half way in the race and the Schumacher/Barrichello happened a lap before the end of the race.

Originally Posted by KSR88

You might want to review your facts. Vettel was penalized after the restart--which was early in the race. You might recall Webber went along was on the option tires to build a gap to win the race. Point being it took very little time for the stewards to tell Red Bull they were penalized. Shumachers incident did not happen on the last lap! It was on 66 of 70! They went three laps after the incident---the review notice went across my screen--in fact virtually the same timing as Helios incident.

So i may not have been 100% accurate with the timings, but the point stands. IIRC you can't show a Black Flag within the last 3 laps of the race so that would have gave them less than a lap.

[phoenix]

Originally Posted by beau1

Nowhere near as extreme, but still worth a punishment? You can make a similar list of 'what ifs' by pushing an F1 car on to the grass than you can by pushing a car near to a wall.

The Petrov incident was bad enough in my eyes, you can argue that he was 'breaking the tow' all you want but the last time I saw an F1 deviate 4-5 times across a track like he did, it was called weaving.

Oh and for what its worth, I think there is a huge amount of anti-Schumacher feeling, it is apparent on and off these forums. A lot of people have a go at Schumacher and feel sorry for Rubens about Austria 2002, whereas it was an equal team order. People seem to forget that it was Rubens who then decided to stay with the team until 2004 because he was 'soooo unhappy' right? That is anti-Schumacher.
When he cried after breaking Senna's record, people claimed that he was faking it, that is Anti-Schumacher.
It goes on and has always gone on and is going on with this incident.

Since Schumacher himself has accepted the Stewards decision and has now appologised to Rubens for what he admits was an over agressive move - can you not accept the same?

I think you might be confusing people who have condemned Schumacher's driving at the weekend with people who hate Schumacher. I have noticed many people in this thread who are regular Schumacher supporters and who in this case have condemend Schumacher for his driving in Hungary. They are obviously not Schmacher haters - they are Schumacher fans who feel they have been let down by the hero. I think you should give some credance to that....

Let's put it this way - I dont think anyone has been so vehement in their attack of the man (rather than the move he made) as you have been vehement in the man's defence - although you have also said that you don't condone his move completely.

And as this thread is about Schumacher, maybe you should consider starting another one to bash Rubens, or any of the other drivers you have mentioned, if you wish to continue doing so, leaving this thread to the purpose it was intended for.