Brabham BT36

[allenbrown]

I make it three Chris: Hockenhein, Vallelunga 1 and Vallelunga 2. Or four if you count the DNS at Imola.

Any way to find out where in Switzerland 02501/2373 would be?

Allen

[zucca]

Any way to find out where in Switzerland 02501/2373 would be?

This is never a Swiss phone number

[Andrew Fellowes]

Originally Posted by Andrew Fellowes

exactly Allen but here is another, in Germany. Powerslide April 1973
fur F2 und F3
02501/2373

Germany perhaps?

Zucca have you seen Beat Schenkers post on TNF? I'll send you a bit more by a P M.
http://forums.autosport.com/showthre...threadid=41468

Andrew

[Chris Townsend]

Concerning the Moser BT36
MN 29 July 71 p.9 gives chassis number BT36-11 and describes the car as written off after the accident.
However, to throw a wrinkle into the story
According to MN 12 Aug 71 Moser was at Mantorp [the next race] and lists the chassis again as 36-11, but the car does not practice. What was this? Did Moser take the car to Sweden, knowing it was too badly damaged to race, in the hope of getting his starting money? Or did he take the BT30 with the 36-11 plate on it? MN had a reporter at that meeting and he'd have known the difference and not been afraid to comment on it. Or was Moser just entered, MN assumed the chassis number from the last race, and didn't notice that he wasn't there.
Moser doesn't appear with a BT36 again until Vallelunga - no chassis number given in MN. Andrew, I think you need pictures from those two Vallelunga races. Did he revert back to the BT30? Autosport's comment that he'd finally got his BT36 needs to be taken with some caution as I don't think that their overseas F2 coverage is a patch on MN.

Chris

[Andrew Fellowes]

In some places it is credited as a BT30/36 from Imola onwards, and what is worse, I am sure I have seen the entry for Mantorp as a BT30 but take that with a pinch of salt.
Quoting Motoring News on any report like the one on Moser going to order a BT36 for the season is very fragile. There are so many similar that never happened.
My contact has Vallelunga pictures of Moser, oh no, (groans at the thought of 20 Euro a picture) but I have seen one, and it a BT36 for sure.

[Andrew Fellowes]

Beat has sent me an email, in Italian, and as I read it he says that no matter what the exact sequence was, BT30-17 turned into BT36-11. At the very best he says, the old BT30 chassis ended up in England where Ron might have sold it on, but without the chassis plate!

I was going by the d.n.a. for Mantorp on Stefan Örnerdal's site, that puts a real squeeze on the time frame and makes a visit to MRD between Rouen and Imola far more likely.

Andrew

[Andrew Fellowes]

I've just re-read the email with a different translation. Maybe this should be on the BT30 thread because he says they had the same car all season, it was up rated mid season to 36 spec but carried the same chassis plate all the time.
This must be very similar to the Watson car, except somehow there must have been two chassis plates, 30-17 and 36-11 perhaps because there was a full chassis transplant.

back to the drawing board.
Andrew

[allenbrown]

Where and when?


(click for a larger image)

It was taken by Ted and there is some relevance to it being posted on this thread but you get no more clues than that.

Allen

[James Murray]

Rondel nose suggests 36-1 or 2

[Andrew Fellowes]

Oh wow!

Originally Posted by James Murray

Rondel nose suggests 36-1 or 2

#1 and it is quite an interesting nose. Its 3 piece. It still has the metal deflection plates and some one has added a metal skid plate underneath, in the process destroying the (accidental) ground effects that Rondel enjoyed. There is no evidence it had the adjustable slides that are sometimes talked about.

What is irritating is that I saw Harps with the car at Geoff R's before restoration, I was leaving as he arrived, but the photo rang no bells at all, thank heavens you posted James!

Andrew

p.s. I am using the centre section as an original style nose, Simon before you get up me for non originality, it appears to have been an early nose, later converted.

[Andrew Fellowes]

Those drive shafts in that picture never made it to me, any idea Ted where there are now, I need them to replace those horrible cv's that Harper put on the car.

Originally Posted by Chris Townsend

However, to throw a wrinkle into the story
According to MN 12 Aug 71 Moser was at Mantorp [the next race] and lists the chassis again as 36-11, but the car does not practice. What was this? Chris

Chris was it actually there? It says that Bonnier, Brambilla, Siffert, Westbury and Richardson did not practice either.

[Chris Townsend]

Andrew

I'm not sure. There might need to be some detailed reading done of the reports of the Mantorp race, and maybe 'Pit and Paddock' type news items to find out why so many people didn't practice. Were they all sunbathing?

Unfortunately I don't have access to A/S or MN until the last week of Feb when I'm briefly back in London

Chris

[Andrew Fellowes]

& the other thing I have found, is a couple of reports on the web of the car as being the BT30 that was entered at Mantorp. These reports are of little value as the source is unkown but it does raise a slight question mark that would be great to check, but that, will be hard indeed.

[allenbrown]

BT36-5
1971 F.I.R.S.T. for Peter Westbury for F2
1972 (early season) Peter Westbury for F2
1972-74 Nick Koob (Luxembourg) for French, Belgian and Luxembourg hill climbs
1975-76 not known
1977 presumably the car of Michel Salvi in French hill climbs
Nothing further ‘till
1990 Paris ?
1992 John Harper
1993 John Beasley
1999 Abba Kogan

If Salvi may be its driver in 1977 then Dalloz may be in 1978. He appears 8th in class at Vuillafans 11 Jun 1978 in a "Brabham BT36".

Allen

[Andrew Fellowes]

Autosprint 2-9 augusto 1971

nuovi guard-rails al curvone del <tamburello> sono stati <collaudati> della Brabham nuovissima, di Silvio Moser, nel corso delle prove di venerdi della Formula 2. Nelle foto, vediamo da vettura ferma, con in evidenza i non pochi danni che he subito.

Looks like Moser tested out the new guard rails with his latest Brabham during Fridays F2 practice, and not a little damage was done!
A couple of photos, head on and from across the otherside of the track.

2 pages earlier Vittorio Brambilla seems to the centre of a huge F3 pile up at Imola

[Euromontagna]

1972:Koop
1973:Pignard
1974:Peter Stürtz
1977:Salvi
1986:Hämmerli

[Andrew Fellowes]

1972:Koop Nick Koob BT36-5
1973:Pignard BT30-24 sometimes reported incorrectly as a BT36
1974:Peter Stürtz
1977:Salvi BT36-5?
1986:Hämmerli

Andrew

[Euromontagna]

Originally Posted by Andrew Fellowes

1972:Koop Nick Koob BT36-5
1973:Pignard BT30-24 sometimes reported incorrectly as a BT36
1974:Peter Stürtz
1977:Salvi BT36-5?
1986:Hämmerli

Andrew

Thanks for info !
what about Nick Koob = Nicolas Koob/LUX

[allenbrown]

BT36-5
1971 F.I.R.S.T. for Peter Westbury for F2
1972 (early season) Peter Westbury for F2
1972-74 Nick Koob (Luxembourg) for French, Belgian and Luxembourg hill climbs
1975-76 not known
1977 presumably the car of Michel Salvi in French hill climbs
Nothing further ‘till
1990 Paris ?
1992 John Harper
1993 John Beasley
1999 Abba Kogan

I must retract my suggestion that Salvi is likely to have had the ex-Koob car. Salvi was Swiss, not French, so 'likely' probably isn't the right word. BT36-11 is just as possible. I think Salvi's car should be taken out of BT36-5 and put in with the mystery cars.

[Andrew Fellowes]

Is Dalloz Swiss or French, Can we at least say Salvi's car went to Dalloz or is that too tenuous?

[allenbrown]

At the moment, too tenuous. I will look again to see where Dalloz competed - there seem to be a group of events that the Swiss regularly turn out for.

[allenbrown]

An interview wit Salvi in Echappement May 1976 p57 reveals that he has had several Brabhams: first a Brabham-Honda of some sort for 1971, then a 1300cc Brabham BT21 for 1974. He wrecked this at Saint-Hyppolite (1975 I think) and bought a BT23 from Jacques Joliat to continue his season.

So no BT36 after all - at least not up to early 1976.

Allen

[allenbrown]

Another mystery BT36 to add to our collection. J Krier appears twice during July 1975 (Chamrousse 20 Jul and Vuillafans 27 Jul) with a "F2 Brabham" or "Brabham BT36".

Allen

[phdm]

[QUOTE=allenbrown]BT36-5
1971 F.I.R.S.T. for Peter Westbury for F2
1972 (early season) Peter Westbury for F2
1972-74 Nick Koob (Luxembourg) for French, Belgian and Luxembourg hill climbs
1975-76 not known
1977 presumably the car of Michel Salvi in French hill climbs
Nothing further ‘till
1990 Paris ?
1992 John Harper
1993 John Beasley
1999 Abba Kogan
QUOTE]


Could this be the car driven by Alain Filhol in Euro F2 in the early nineties unless you have another number ?

[allenbrown]

BT36-5
1971 F.I.R.S.T. for Peter Westbury for F2
1972 (early season) Peter Westbury for F2
1972-74 Nick Koob (Luxembourg) for French, Belgian and Luxembourg hill climbs
Nothing further ‘till
1990 Paris ?
1992 John Harper
1993 John Beasley
1999 Abba Kogan

(Looks better with Salvi taken out.)

It could well be the car driven by Alain Filhol in Euro F2 in the early nineties. I don't have an up-to-date contact address for Alain or I'd ask him.

Allen