ALMS/Grand Am Fusion 2014 - Page 105

**Adam43** · 9 Jan 2013, 19:59 (Ref:3186992)

Only because a such a snippet of sarcasm deserves this. It is 2013 not 2012

HORNDAWG · 9 Jan 2013, 20:06 (Ref:3186995)

Quote:

Originally Posted by IndyDonut

Damn, good point. Actually, wait, it's 2012. They have no way to seal the impact gun's motor? I'd take the 50 cents in cost per gun for the material to seal-off the electric motor if it meant not having to deal with air hoses and compressors.

Failure of an electric motor, even when sealed, can be a shocking experience!!

L.P.

IndyDonut · 9 Jan 2013, 20:07 (Ref:3186996)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam43

Only because a such a snippet of sarcasm deserves this. It is 2013 not 2012

I failed pretty hard there. Oof. Regardless, point stands.

IndyDonut · 9 Jan 2013, 20:14 (Ref:3187003)

Quote:

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

Failure of an electric motor, even when sealed, can be a shocking experience!!

L.P.

Again a good point. And again I say, I'm willing to bet that if you give 8 electric impact guns per team (let's have back-ups) for all of 2013, zero will fail during the course of the season. Modern consumer hammer drills and sawzalls don't burn out after years of torture (speaking from experience here), so industrial racing-grade electric impact guns would probably be just fine. Somebody needs to try it for a full season. The benefits of no air hose to deal with and no compressor would probably pay off in terms of safety in the pits and equipment. Hell, solid-state batteries are probably due on the market within the next year or so, that'll make the things lighter and probably let one charge last a whole race weekend if not more.

Scooter185 · 9 Jan 2013, 20:39 (Ref:3187019)

Since the cars use air jacks you're still going to have compressors and air hoses, may as well keep using it for tools as well.

I vote for using the ACO pit rules.

IndyDonut · 9 Jan 2013, 20:44 (Ref:3187021)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scooter185

Since the cars use air jacks you're still going to have compressors and air hoses, may as well keep using it for tools as well.

I vote for using the ACO pit rules.

1) Well that shoots down my argument. I'm thinking electric impact guns might fly in F1 since they use manual hydraulic jacks (and Maca used electric guns at practice this year).

2) I also vote for ACO rules.

Jonerz · 9 Jan 2013, 20:58 (Ref:3187028)

Quote:

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

I'd rather they stay in line with the ALMS pit rules.

L.P.

I'd like the seriousness the ALMS takes with helmets, and fire proof gear in pit safety, but turning off the car in pit stops needs to go. Plus push-starting the car doesn't offend me terribly. S far as guns and men, with the five lock lugs still likely to have a place in 2014, GAGT rules will have to remain the same.

I'm not sure what the differences are in detail, but four people working on the car, plus fire bottle/dead man, plus one guy helping in the driver change seems pretty standard between both. The different hubs, wheel nuts and guns may have to be addressed for competition equality.

Chris

seanyb505 · 9 Jan 2013, 21:00 (Ref:3187030)

Quote:

Originally Posted by IndyDonut

Besides, anything you lose in tire change time in terms of half seconds is moot in sportscar racing due to pit stops often involving driver change or turning the engine off depending on series.

Tell that to Audi.

While I appreciate the American general disregard for safety in my personal garage, I'm not willing to pay near $100 for weekend tickets to see a pit stop rule set that cuts corners. I'd rather see precisely engineered stops in a professional race series. Given the owners, I wouldn't be surprised if they start using cement blocks for jacks to appeal to their target market.

HORNDAWG · 9 Jan 2013, 21:07 (Ref:3187035)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonerz

I'd like the seriousness the ALMS takes with helmets, and fire proof gear in pit safety, but turning off the car in pit stops needs to go. Plus push-starting the car doesn't offend me terribly. S far as guns and men, with the five lock lugs still likely to have a place in 2014, GAGT rules will have to remain the same.

I'm not sure what the differences are in detail, but four people working on the car, plus fire bottle/dead man, plus one guy helping in the driver change seems pretty standard between both. The different hubs, wheel nuts and guns may have to be addressed for competition equality.

Chris

2014 is plenty of time to go to a single wheel nut, IMO.

L.P.

Matt · 9 Jan 2013, 21:08 (Ref:3187036)

i see nothing wrong with not turning off the car...sportscars are the only ones that do...every other form of racing in the world does just fine with the cars still on.

**Adam43** · 9 Jan 2013, 21:11 (Ref:3187038)

I guess the principle is to test the endurance of all components, including the starter motor.

Scooter185 · 9 Jan 2013, 21:13 (Ref:3187041)

I was thinking about that at the pump the other day. We have to shut the engine off to refuel but race cars don't (well f1 doesn't refuel anymore)

I don't mind them killing the engine, at the very least it makes them more relatable to the road cars and general public.

Starfish Primer · 9 Jan 2013, 21:14 (Ref:3187042)

Quote:

Originally Posted by seanyb505

Tell that to Audi.

While I appreciate the American general disregard for safety in my personal garage, I'm not willing to pay near $100 for weekend tickets to see a pit stop rule set that cuts corners. I'd rather see precisely engineered stops in a professional race series. Given the owners, I wouldn't be surprised if they start using cement blocks for jacks to appeal to their target market.

Matt · 9 Jan 2013, 21:27 (Ref:3187046)

I see social elitism is still alive and well.

The Badger · 9 Jan 2013, 21:31 (Ref:3187049)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Starfish Primer

We got a scouse team out there , have we ?

burbanite · 9 Jan 2013, 22:36 (Ref:3187070)

The ALMS rules closely follow those of the ACO as we know, hence the requirement to shut off the engines. I don't like it but that is the way it is. I believe that if the intention, as stated, is to stay closely aligned with the ACO then those type of rules will be introduced across the board instead of moving toward the GA/NASCAR/IndyCar type.

Yes, electric tools are banned from pit lane per ALMS rules. Electric impact guns are in common use in the garages once the wheel nuts are loose but not robust enough to properly loosen and torque the nuts on a "P" car for running. The type of air gun used is designed to have different characteristics in one direction than the other, they are handed left and right for that reason.

I won't say that future developments will not be able to overcome this but for now teams run what they know.

IndyDonut · 9 Jan 2013, 23:14 (Ref:3187083)

Quote:

Originally Posted by seanyb505

Tell that to Audi.

While I appreciate the American general disregard for safety in my personal garage, I'm not willing to pay near $100 for weekend tickets to see a pit stop rule set that cuts corners. I'd rather see precisely engineered stops in a professional race series. Given the owners, I wouldn't be surprised if they start using cement blocks for jacks to appeal to their target market.

How was anything I said about cutting corners? I think you may have confused me with some other poster. I specifically said the battery-powered impact guns were to not have any air hoses either hanging from gantrys (other than jack-stand hose, but that's always going to be pit-wall/garage side and not be a risk) or on the pit lane as a risk to crew members when a car departs. I also endorsed the safer ALMS rules. I'm really quite confused as to what you mean.

IndyDonut · 9 Jan 2013, 23:17 (Ref:3187084)

Quote:

Originally Posted by burbanite

The ALMS rules closely follow those of the ACO as we know, hence the requirement to shut off the engines. I don't like it but that is the way it is. I believe that if the intention, as stated, is to stay closely aligned with the ACO then those type of rules will be introduced across the board instead of moving toward the GA/NASCAR/IndyCar type.

Yes, electric tools are banned from pit lane per ALMS rules. Electric impact guns are in common use in the garages once the wheel nuts are loose but not robust enough to properly loosen and torque the nuts on a "P" car for running. The type of air gun used is designed to have different characteristics in one direction than the other, they are handed left and right for that reason.

I won't say that future developments will not be able to overcome this but for now teams run what they know.

Thank you for this clarification; much appreciated. I knew the electric ones were not as quick, but didn't realize they couldn't handle a fully-torqued, quick tire change.

gregtummer · 9 Jan 2013, 23:17 (Ref:3187086)

Does Grand Am have unlimited paddock access included in the ticket price like ALMS does?

If not, I think that is one thing everyone here can agree on. Give us ALMS paddock rules!

**joeb** · 10 Jan 2013, 01:17 (Ref:3187129)

Quote:

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

2014 is plenty of time to go to a single wheel nut, IMO.

L.P.

I will second that. It drives me crazy seeing lug nuts rolling off in the pit lane.

Breitling24 · 10 Jan 2013, 02:33 (Ref:3187141)

Quote:

Originally Posted by joeb

I will second that. It drives me crazy seeing lug nuts rolling off in the pit lane.

Careful, that might sound elitist.

**skycafe** · 10 Jan 2013, 02:40 (Ref:3187143)

Quote:

Originally Posted by joeb

I will second that. It drives me crazy seeing lug nuts rolling off in the pit lane.

I can't believe that isn't a liability problem...

**joeb** · 10 Jan 2013, 02:50 (Ref:3187144)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Breitling24

Careful, that might sound elitist.

Quote:

Originally Posted by skycafe

I can't believe that isn't a liability problem...

I agree, I have been hit by a small metal projectile, and it isn't fun.

I don't know the GrandAm pit rules all that well but is it a penalty to run over a hose?

IndyDonut · 10 Jan 2013, 03:21 (Ref:3187148)

Quote:

Originally Posted by joeb

I agree, I have been hit by a small metal projectile, and it isn't fun.

I don't know the GrandAm pit rules all that well but is it a penalty to run over a hose?

Well, if there's no hose to run ove...I kid, I kid. I know they need to use air.

Can we assume ISCAR has the common sense to push Grand-Am/ALMS 2014 series into all single-lug-nut wheels for the GA-GT/GT class? Have they mentioned this issue?

**skycafe** · 10 Jan 2013, 03:23 (Ref:3187150)

Quote:

Originally Posted by joeb

I don't know the GrandAm pit rules all that well but is it a penalty to run over a hose?

I don't know but I would be stunned if there wasn't, I believe that is a universal rule

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