2015 Liqui Moly Bathurst 12 Hour: 6-8 February

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by scudd

Obviously for personal reasons, I'd hate to see a full pro line up.
Plenty of aussie V8 teams would run a car with their guns, apart from factory OS teams.
I'd heard Roland was going to run a car this year.
Would leave all us privateers feeling disappointed at never having another chance of winning outright.
I've advised the organisers they need a bronze driver in the line up.

Are you seeded as a Bronze or Silver Scudd?

[Speed-King]

Obviously for personal reasons, I'd hate to see a full pro line up.
Plenty of aussie V8 teams would run a car with their guns, apart from factory OS teams.

Which, from a promoter's perspective, would only help the event. At least in the short term. It sure is a - well - interesting problem to have, isn't it?

I've advised the organisers they need a bronze driver in the line up.

That'd actually mean going back (i.e. less professional) than what we had this year with the factories bringing in guys like Bell or Mapelli to make up their numbers, right?

Would leave all us privateers feeling disappointed at never having another chance of winning outright.

Any more so than right now?

[ff s conscience]

Clearwater lost most time with a dud wheel change pit stop under green. The nut/gun jammed or somethinge.

Mok did as well as he needed to, it wasn't his fault they didn't place. Vilander copped a drive through for hanging back too far under sc too.

[ff s conscience]

I dont think an all pro line up is sustainable.

the money comes from gents. If they can't drive they won't play, and can't blame them.

[scudd]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Are you seeded as a Bronze or Silver Scudd?

I'd love to be silver, that would mean I'd be fast.

dave is a silver, steve o and richo are golds.

muscat is silver, and I guess so would the ex stig?

not sure which nismo lads in the GTR would be bronze?

easy enough to check the current FIA rankings.

[scudd]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

Which, from a promoter's perspective, would only help the event. At least in the short term. It sure is a - well - interesting problem to have, isn't it?

the promoter doesn't need aussie V8 teams.

That'd actually mean going back (i.e. less professional) than what we had this year with the factories bringing in guys like Bell or Mapelli to make up their numbers, right?

no.

Any more so than right now?

no. we could of won the race if we didn't have wheel nut issues. as could of wyatt or mok or anyone else who had dramas.
with so many safety cars, the slowest driver wasn't as important from a speed point of view. as long as you were on the lead lap, you'd always catch the leader. we got 1 lap back during the day, just needed the Nissan to pit under safery car with 4? hours to go and we would of been back on the lead lap and in with a sniff. dave demonstrated the lambo had the pace. we had great pace all weekend, not just for quali. and for a change the car ran perfectly and no roos, that was left for the poor bmw.

[scudd]

I checked the 3 Datsun drivers.

all silver rankings.

not very fair.

[scudd]

matt bell silver

steven kane gold

guy smith platinum

won't bother looking at other teams, but plenty with the same story.

very bad for a 'pro-am' event.

[D.R.T.]

They deemed Silver as an Am driver for the event. That was the same for everyone

Ben Collins is a Silver driver as ranked by the FIA.

We can argue whether an Am should be Silver or Bronze however fairness or unfairness doesn't come into it here for 2015

Everyone had the opportunity to run a Silver as their Am

On another note - the race shouldn't go all pro nor just class A & B. For sustainably of the event, we are going to through peaks & troughs with sportscar & GT racing which will the support of gentlemen racers & class racing

[scudd]

Originally Posted by D.R.T.

They deemed Silver as an Am driver for the event. That was the same for everyone

Ben Collins is a Silver driver as ranked by the FIA.

We can argue whether an Am should be Silver or Bronze however fairness or unfairness doesn't come into it here for 2015

Everyone had the opportunity to run a Silver as their Am

SRO run Spa 24hr as 3 pros in 'pro class', and 4 drivers with at least 1 being bronze regardless of the different configurations in 'pro am' class.

I guess 12hr folk should of called the class something other than 'pro am' cause it's wasn't.

[scudd]

Originally Posted by D.R.T.

They deemed Silver as an Am driver for the event. That was the same for everyone.

No they didn't and no it wasn't.
Dave Russell is silver, but classed as seeded due to V8s.
How dumb is that rule when hundreds of guys from overseas have never driven V8s in Australia?
Doesn't make sense.

[rich07]

Originally Posted by ff s conscience

Clearwater lost most time with a dud wheel change pit stop under green. The nut/gun jammed or somethinge.

Mok did as well as he needed to, it wasn't his fault they didn't place. Vilander copped a drive through for hanging back too far under sc too.

I remember on the coverage seeing that pitstop with the guys kicking the gun in frustration as they tried to get the wheel off but nothing was happening.

How about we have a PP class. Pretend Pro. You know for those teams that have three pro drivers yet still claim one of them is a gentlemen driver even though there is no way in hell that is the case. Bentley would've stood on a podium this year even with the stupidity of Stefan Mucke on the last corner.

[RedZedMikey]

Originally Posted by peckstar

Last year the announcment about the following year was made on the Monday after the race.

Bit slower this year, wonder what the delay is?

I believe that Channel 7 and the promoters need to agree a date, and it will be announced when that is reached. Last year there was no need to wait as ch 7 coverage wasn't under consideration.

I just hope the B12 / V8 Test Day shenanigans are over and done with.

[jasonjessica09]

Originally Posted by ff s conscience

I don't think its fair to say the class c and others caused the most safety cars is it?

This race was still well over 1100 km of green flag racing. By any imagination, that's an endurance event.

Safety cars are part of racing, yes, 20 is too many in 12 hours, but there's no need to knee jerk reaction anything.

Let it roll along, it's a great race.

It may be fun to introduce compulsory front pad change or something to stir the pot a bit.

Safety cars a part of racing? No I dont think so. In fact its sad but endurance races have almost gotten to the point where how good the race was is proportional with how much full course yellow time there was. The less FCY's the better the race seems to be. I generally tend to agree with this. This year's Daytona was not all that bad when you compare it to the standard that has been set recently. Bathurst 2015, all of 2014 NAEC races, even the 2014 Spa 24 was safety car marred for a good while. For Sebring yes I'll be cheering for my favorite car to win but its gotten to a point where I will be cheering more for...green flag uninterrupted racing.

The blame: well mostly on the drivers. I swear most racing drives don't know how to drive endurance events. Despite what the commentators say about 24 or 12 hour sprint races existing now. You still have to take care of the equipment to be there at the end. Some of the moves I saw drivers make in the middle of the freaking race at Bathurst was nuts. Particularly the blocking moves going on. Even the commentators said so as well.

[velly4]

I fully understand what you are saying Scudd. To a degree the organiser is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.
The second AF Corse car was a perfect example, lost the pay driver lost the car.
Do you think having to have a bronze level driver would turn big international teams away?
Wouldn't that also open the can of worms with the GT academy boys like it did in British GT?

[ff s conscience]

Originally Posted by jasonjessica09

Safety cars a part of racing? No I dont think so. In fact its sad but endurance races have almost gotten to the point where how good the race was is proportional with how much full course yellow time there was. The less FCY's the better the race seems to be. I generally tend to agree with this. This year's Daytona was not all that bad when you compare it to the standard that has been set recently. Bathurst 2015, all of 2014 NAEC races, even the 2014 Spa 24 was safety car marred for a good while. For Sebring yes I'll be cheering for my favorite car to win but its gotten to a point where I will be cheering more for...green flag uninterrupted racing.

The blame: well mostly on the drivers. I swear most racing drives don't know how to drive endurance events. Despite what the commentators say about 24 or 12 hour sprint races existing now. You still have to take care of the equipment to be there at the end. Some of the moves I saw drivers make in the middle of the freaking race at Bathurst was nuts. Particularly the blocking moves going on. Even the commentators said so as well.

I dont think argument would be worthwhile to help you understand any better.

I would urge you to volunteer yourself or family members to become flaggies or marshalling personnel.

Then you may see why safety cars are part of racing.

[ff s conscience]

Originally Posted by scudd

No they didn't and no it wasn't.
Dave Russell is silver, but classed as seeded due to V8s.
How dumb is that rule when hundreds of guys from overseas have never driven V8s in Australia?
Doesn't make sense.

What has Dave ever done in v8s specifically that determined him to be seeded? Taking part is not a seedable offence!

I think they seeded him more from discretionary opinion rather than hard evidence.

And yes, Ben Collins being unseeded is a joke.

It needs to be made better, no doubt.

[ff s conscience]

Originally Posted by rich07

I remember on the coverage seeing that pitstop with the guys kicking the gun in frustration as they tried to get the wheel off but nothing was happening.

How about we have a PP class. Pretend Pro. You know for those teams that have three pro drivers yet still claim one of them is a gentlemen driver even though there is no way in hell that is the case. Bentley would've stood on a podium this year even with the stupidity of Stefan Mucke on the last corner.

Both Clearwater and af corse run the optional "f1 style" wheel nut and hub combination, while MM, Trass, Trofeo and Vicious Rumour all run the standard wheel nuts.

Even in practice, we saw enough evidence to convince us we were happy with our lot. The race proved it for us, although I think Trass had wheel nut drama.

It all comes down to finger trouble and cold hard luck in the end.

But luck is manufactured.

[scudd]

Originally Posted by ff s conscience

What has Dave ever done in v8s specifically that determined him to be seeded? Taking part is not a seedable offence!

I think they seeded him more from discretionary opinion rather than hard evidence.

And yes, Ben Collins being unseeded is a joke.

It needs to be made better, no doubt.

I thought you of all people would know the regs?

Tick one of these boxes and you're automatically seeded.

http://www.bathurst12hour.com.au/com...ification-form

[ff s conscience]

Originally Posted by scudd

I thought you of all people would know the regs?

Tick one of these boxes and you're automatically seeded.

http://www.bathurst12hour.com.au/com...ification-form

I know the regs, but I'm not aware of Dave being a main driver in v8s, only co driver.

When and which was he main driver?

Edit, ah co driver last 5 years too... Totally skipped that bit.

Well that's ****, what a joke.

Furthermore, has it really been 5 years since Cam Mcconville drove v8?

He was unseeded.

[Reload]

Originally Posted by ff s conscience

I know the regs, but I'm not aware of Dave being a main driver in v8s, only co driver.

When and which was he main driver?

Edit, ah co driver last 5 years too... Totally skipped that bit.

Well that's ****, what a joke.

Furthermore, has it really been 5 years since Cam Mcconville drove v8?

He was unseeded.

I'm not overly familiar with Dave's V8 racing career, however i do remember him getting a start due to a Greg Murphy injury.

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by ff s conscience

I
Furthermore, has it really been 5 years since Cam Mcconville drove v8?

He was unseeded.

Im thinking you meant someone else as Cam wasnt racing, But i cant work out who

However he did the enduros in 2012

[ff s conscience]

Originally Posted by peckstar

Im thinking you meant someone else as Cam wasnt racing, But i cant work out who

However he did the enduros in 2012

Nope. I had cam confirm his seeding when were considering options.

Murphy was available too, and was seeded.

But very happy with our line up. Benny was sensational, his best lap was only 0.0023 behind montermini... 11 cm!
And Renato actually turned out to be our fastest driver on average, due of course to safety car running, but he did a mega job regardless.

And our overall pace on the harder tyres was right up there. The softer 7 compound the others used was not availble to us in 19" sizes, which hurt ultimate lap time.

[scudd]

Originally Posted by velly4

I fully understand what you are saying Scudd. To a degree the organiser is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.
The second AF Corse car was a perfect example, lost the pay driver lost the car.
Do you think having to have a bronze level driver would turn big international teams away?
Wouldn't that also open the can of worms with the GT academy boys like it did in British GT?

my gut tells me if the 12hr people move to having 1 bronze driver per team, then yes some won't come back as it's one of the few events that the teams know the rules are currently rubbery when it comes to driver rankings. though everyone knows the rules for Spa 24hr, and are happy to play by them. but Bathurst 12hr as a race or as an event isn't a Spa 24hr, not even close. not sure what happened in british GT, but I think FIA rankings work well.

here's the results of the bronze test from Spa last year. no complaints from me, but there's some quick bronze guys out there. pole was a 19.0, our best was dave with a 21.2


1

43 Comandini/Amos/Cerutti/Colombo ROAL Motorsport 13 2:22.068 177,5 20:10:12

PAM BMW Z4 ROAL Motorsport

2

107 Howard/Adam/Mücke/Lloyd Beechdean AMR 11 2:22.107 0.039 0.039 177,4 20:08:34

PAM Aston Martin Vantage GT3 Beechdean AMR

3

100 Maleev/Perez Alcart/Mavlanov/Zampieri SMP Racing Russian Bears 19 2:22.945 0.877 0.838 176,4 20:18:39

PAM Ferrari 458 Italia SMP Racing Russian Bears

4

53 Hommerson/Machiels/Bertolini/Cioci AF Corse 8 2:23.317 1.249 0.372 175,9 19:50:49

PAM Ferrari 458 Italia AF Corse

5

32 Wilson/Leonard/Meadows/Lamy Leonard Motorsport AMR 5 2:23.512 1.444 0.195 175,7 19:43:54

PAM Aston Martin Vantage GT3 Aston Martin Racing

6

11 Broniszewski/Bonacini/Frezza/Piccini Kessel Racing 8 2:24.080 2.012 0.568 175,0 19:50:37

PAM Ferrari 458 Italia Kessel Racing

7

90 Montermini/Castellacci/Gai/Rizzoli Scuderia Villorba Corse 5 2:24.502 2.434 0.422 174,5 19:53:51

PAM Ferrari 458 Italia Scuderia Vilorba Corse SRL

8

54 Cameron/Griffin/Mortimer AF Corse 16 2:25.114 3.046 0.612 173,8 20:22:18

PAM Ferrari 458 Italia Spirit Of Race

9

52 Wyatt/Rugolo/Lowndes/Piccini AF Corse 16 2:25.235 3.167 0.121 173,6 20:16:24

PAM Ferrari 458 Italia Spirit Of Race

10

116 Barthez/Debard/Badey/Vautier SOFREV ASP 7 2:25.292 3.224 0.057 173,5 19:47:49

PAM Ferrari 458 Italia Team SOFREV ASP

11

18 Muscat/Lunkin/Al Faisal/Bracke Black Falcon 17 2:25.396 3.328 0.104 173,4 20:17:40

PAM Mercedes SLS AMG GT3 Black Falcon

12

49 Mallegol/Bachelier/Blank/Perrodo AF Corse 16 2:25.634 3.566 0.238 173,1 20:18:32

GTR Ferrari 458 Italia AF Corse

13

17 Andersen/Jensen/Yeomans Insightracing with Flex-Box 7 2:25.781 3.713 0.147 173,0 19:49:57

PAM Ferrari 458 Italia Insightracing dk

14

458 Ehret/Mattschull/Grouwels/Müller GT Corse by Rinaldi 4 2:25.788 3.720 0.007 173,0 19:47:31

GTR Ferrari 458 Italia GT Corse by Rinaldi

15

38 Abra/Osborne/Poole/Turner MP Motorsport AMR 12 2:26.199 4.131 0.411 172,5 19:59:41

PAM Aston Martin Vantage GT3 Aston Martin Racing

16

15 Ojjeh/Grotz/Vervisch/Pantano Boutsen Ginion 10 2:26.263 4.195 0.064 172,4 19:58:07

PAM McLaren MP4-12C Boutsen Ginion Racing

17

150 Weiss/Kainz/Krumbach/Menzel Wochenspiegel Team Manthey 3 2:26.302 4.234 0.039 172,3 19:40:54

PAM Porsche 997 GT3 R Wochenspiegel Team Manthey

18

14 Frey/Gardel/Barth/Hirschi Emil Frey Racing 16 2:26.329 4.261 0.027 172,3 20:20:47

PAM Emil Frey G3 Jaguar Emil Frey Racing

19

23 Lago/Russell/Richards/Owen Lago Racing 10 2:26.784 4.716 0.455 171,8 19:56:14

PAM Lamborghini LP600 Lago Racing

20

4 Blanchemain/Kelders/Rademecker/Bouvy Belgian Audi Club Team WRT 16 2:26.891 4.823 0.107 171,7 20:19:19

PAM Audi R8 LMS Ultra Belgian Audi Club Team WRT

21

22 Loggie/Westwood/Rosenblad/Matschiski Team Parker Racing 13 2:26.915 4.847 0.024 171,6 20:21:40

GTR Audi R8 LMS Ultra Team Parker Racing LTD

22

51 Mann/Talkanista/Guedes/Mezard AF Corse 8 2:27.524 5.456 0.609 170,9 19:52:42

GTR Ferrari 458 Italia AF Corse

23

50 Danyliw/Knap/Sonvico/Pier Guidi AF Corse 4 2:27.661 5.593 0.137 170,8 19:50:44

PAM Ferrari 458 Italia AF Corse

24

333 Solikhov/Kogay/Seefried/Siedler GT Corse by Rinaldi 11 2:27.816 5.748 0.155 170,6 20:20:28

PAM Ferrari 458 Italia GT Corse by Rinaldi

25

111 Earle/Kremer/Mahy/Talbot Kessel Racing 10 2:28.204 6.136 0.388 170,1 19:57:53

GTR Ferrari 458 Italia Kessel Racing

26

25 Rostan/Haezebrouck/Buffin/Gosselin Sainteloc Racing 12 2:28.836 6.768 0.632 169,4 20:06:24

GTR Audi R8 LMS Ultra Sainteloc Junior Team

27

120 Bourret/Gibon/Belloc/Canal SOFREV ASP 5 2:30.263 8.195 1.427 167,8 19:43:22

PAM Ferrari 458 Italia Team SOFREV ASP

28

79 Smith/McCaig/Bryant/Sims Ecurie Ecosse 5 2:38.506 16.438 8.243 159,1 19:51:42

PAM BMW Z4 Alasdair McCaig

16 Sarkissian/Demirdjian/van der Drift/Schmetz

Boutsen Ginion 0
PAM McLaren MP4-12C Boutsen Ginion Racing

[chavez]

Originally Posted by ff s conscience

Nope. I had cam confirm his seeding when were considering options.

Murphy was available too, and was seeded.

But very happy with our line up. Benny was sensational, his best lap was only 0.0023 behind montermini... 11 cm!
And Renato actually turned out to be our fastest driver on average, due of course to safety car running, but he did a mega job regardless.

And our overall pace on the harder tyres was right up there. The softer 7 compound the others used was not availble to us in 19" sizes, which hurt ultimate lap time.

Cam raced in one round of the Kumho Tyres series in 2014, but surely this wouldn't count.