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26 Sep 2011, 20:52 (Ref:2961338) | #251 | ||
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26 Sep 2011, 21:01 (Ref:2961347) | #252 | |||
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Bicentennial Park Tamiami Park West Palm Beach Tampa Grand Rapids Bell Isle #1 Belle Isle #2 Detroit F1 Las Vegas F1 Las Vegas Champ Car Phoenix F1 Phoenix Champ Car Columbus Dallas Denver #1 Denver #2 Del Mar Houston Reliant Park Houston Meadowlands Minneapolis New Orleans San Antonio San Jose Sorry about our disagreement. |
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26 Sep 2011, 21:29 (Ref:2961372) | #253 | |||
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Street courses certainly can be a risky proposition but when run well they can be successful. In spite of the IRL Long Beach continues to exist, Toronto is limping along. But yes, there is a lot of risk in a street course race, but there is a lot of risk in a road race. The two advantages road races have is the brunt of American circuits are established landmarks with solid fan bases (Mid-Ohio, Road America, Road Atlanta, The Glen etc.) and they aren't reliant on the cooperation of city governments. Chris EDIT: Oh, and generally the road races are in scenic national parks that promote camping and the weekend schedules can be easier to organize with test days being available in the week (and weeks) leading up to the event. On that note, I am tired of the ALMS being treated as a support series at the IRL street races and having terrible on-track times. |
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26 Sep 2011, 21:40 (Ref:2961377) | #254 | ||
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The point about getting 2nd class treatment compared to the IRL is true. There is usually not a lot of track time for practice. Plus, street races are usually sprints. And, like I said earlier, there may be more FCYs. |
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26 Sep 2011, 22:06 (Ref:2961388) | #255 | ||
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I decided to tally up the permanent road courses with long-standing stature, that are considered "up-to-snuff", and I did NOT include rovals in this either. For the US, this is what I get:
1. Laguna Seca 2. Lime Rock 3. Mid Ohio 4. Portland 5. Road America 6. Road Atlanta 7. Sears Point 8. Sebring 9. Watkins Glen That isn't very many venues, and there are HUGE geographic gaps left when only taking these nine into account. If we include Canada, the total comes up to 11, with the addition of Mosport and Mont Tremblant. I've already had several people on here shoot down VIR as an option. There's virtually NOTHING in this middle portion of the country as far as a good, permanent venue is concerned; Heatland Park and Hallett don't exactly cut it. The old Brainerd isn't up to standards, and the new, shorter course isn't a good layout. Bridgehampton is gone (turned into a golf course). For where the series would want to go into a new area, there really isn't an option apart from a temporary circuit. Too bad Riverside is gone, leaving Long Beach as the only real option in Southern California. |
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26 Sep 2011, 22:18 (Ref:2961395) | #256 | ||
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26 Sep 2011, 23:23 (Ref:2961417) | #257 | ||
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Mid Ohio is practically in the Northeast.
The Austin venue could fill the Texas void, but those guys may be trying to cater solely to the international series: F1, MotoGP, V8 Supercars, WEC(?). And in all honesty, Texas is big enough with enough people, that like Florida and California, it could well support two events, in theory. I think maybe there should be something closer to the I-70 corridor between Indianapolis and Denver. If they could add some facilities to High Plains Raceway, that might be a good option. As far as the circuits themselves go though, I don't particularly dislike temporary circuits as a rule. IMSA and CART/CCWS have had a number of decent to very good temporary circuits: Miami (1986-95), Cleveland, Tampa, Vancouver, San Antonio (1990), and San Jose (2006-07). And except for the old road courses, it's only at temporary circuits that you can get so close to the action. Let's face it, to attract fans you need to get them interested/excited, and a major part of that is stimulating their senses and giving them that feel of speed, proximity, and atmosphere. Many new, permanent road courses of Grade 2 and Grade 1 standard fail in this regard. This has been removed some time ago from the company website, but Alan Wilson almost never provides infield access at his circuits. This makes operations easier and cheaper, but also cuts down on viewing opportunities, and closer-up viewing opportunities at actul spectator events. |
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26 Sep 2011, 23:34 (Ref:2961421) | #258 | ||
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So what about Oklahoma City? I don't think those rumors are "dead" yet as they keep popping up every now and then. |
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26 Sep 2011, 23:42 (Ref:2961424) | #259 | ||
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How viable would be an airfield race somewhere in the middle of the US? Seems a lot easier to me to set up than a full blown street circuit and they usually make for really good racing.
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26 Sep 2011, 23:51 (Ref:2961427) | #260 | |||
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Of course that could be one of the reasons it is not far from going belly-up. The original IMSA ran where people wanted them, and that was not part of the reason it died. The reason it died was the same as now, it offered little in the end for anyone to care about. I do not think being asininely arrogant about tracks being "up to snuff" is anything the IMSA can afford to be an ass about. Although eleven tracks is more than enough, if the series offers what pay spectators want. Middle of America is more often seen as a being within x miles from Detroit, or at least was back in hot and heavy gear-head days. Geographically it would be Illinois, Iowa, Missouri, Kansas. Texas is in no way middle of America. It suffers from being not really the south or the west, especially as East Texans and West Texans see themselves as being from different parts of the US, or at least one West Texas instructor told me so. If the IMSA is going to be as narrow-minded as some here seem to be, I think it is time for the fat lady to sing. Last edited by Bob Riebe; 27 Sep 2011 at 00:12. |
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26 Sep 2011, 23:58 (Ref:2961428) | #261 | |
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Well, first you would have to find an airport that is close to a population base and has the capability of being closed or heavily restricted for a handful of days. Then you would have to find someone willing to promote the race. That might be difficult. I don't think you will find as many people wanting to promote a race in St. Louis or Omaha as there would be in Miami or LA. Obviously road racing has a history with the central US, but the interest to hold races appears to be mainly on/near the ocean coasts.
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27 Sep 2011, 00:01 (Ref:2961429) | #262 | ||
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Well, a number of the airfield circuits used by DTM/ITC/DRM would NOT have made for good racing in CART or the ALMS, I think. Cleveland was excellent. The initial Edmonton layout was good. This new one is okay, but they've just about managed to make a street circuit out of it.
Most airfields are too small for something like this. Many of the old SAC airbases aren't maintained well enough, so it would take major funding to repave a large portion of the airport to make it usable for top-tier racing cars. Also, if it's even remotely active, the FAA is probably going to be rather anal retentive about getting approvals to run a race there. Of course, viewing for an airfield circuit will pretty much be confined to the periphery of the course. And I can't see well enough to appreciate being able to see large parts of any racetrack from a single vantage point, so that aspect is almost completely lost on me. EDIT: Bob, tracks are licensed by grades by the FIA. Different categories of cars are permitted to race on tracks, based upon whether those tracks are of an adequate grade level. If you violate that, the FIA can sanction your series, and revoke the competition licenses of the drivers in said series. ANY series in North America that has an international element is subject to the whims of the FIA, even NASCAR, since Montoya, Ambrose, and Villeneuve are NOT from the United States. Also, the involvement of Toyota may give grounds for oversight as well. Last edited by Purist; 27 Sep 2011 at 00:06. |
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27 Sep 2011, 00:16 (Ref:2961433) | #263 | ||||
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Scott Tucker is in the news... and not in a good way.
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27 Sep 2011, 00:25 (Ref:2961437) | #264 | ||
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27 Sep 2011, 00:36 (Ref:2961443) | #265 | |||
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27 Sep 2011, 01:11 (Ref:2961447) | #266 | ||
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Here's another story that goes more in-depth into Tucker's business practices. It looks like there will be another article about Tucker, or at least the type of business he conducts, later on this week.
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27 Sep 2011, 06:50 (Ref:2961491) | #267 | ||
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This is picking at straws and off the mark, but does anyone believe the money he is getting to put Microsoft logos on his car are paying for much of any of his racing activities?
Chris |
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27 Sep 2011, 07:01 (Ref:2961497) | #268 | ||
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Between Andy Evans and Tucker, anyone with Microsoft connections, even if they are highly distant and external, must be viewed suspiciously by the sports car community! Let's just hope Tucker does not make Don any unbelievable offers. That CBS News story that was linked earlier seems to be very popular. My local newspaper had a link to it on it's front page and I saw it as a main news link on Google News. I guess Scott Tucker was hoping to make a splash this week, but not in this manner. Oh well, I doubt the people he swindles read those stories anyway. |
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27 Sep 2011, 07:16 (Ref:2961501) | #269 | |||
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If Scott is a bad man, and he has done that intentionally, putting Microsoft on the side, he must be a sociopath trying to hurt us sports car fans so! Chris |
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27 Sep 2011, 09:22 (Ref:2961537) | #270 | |||
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27 Sep 2011, 10:25 (Ref:2961564) | #271 | ||
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800% ..... thats bad but , people know about this when they enter the contract , so Its their own fault .
Trying to close an opp down if its illegal . If its really illegal , there would be no tryin , it would be closed down , at least here it would be . And so what if he has served time . He doesnt have to broadcast that if he doesnt want to either . While I may not agree with his ethics ..... who here hasnt tried to dodge the tax man at some stage . I know I have , and I dont feel bad about that either . |
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27 Sep 2011, 11:00 (Ref:2961580) | #272 | |
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It's not simple in this case to say whether it is legal or illegal. This isn't so clear cut because it deals with Indian sovereignty laws that we have in the US as well as other issues. It's not unusual for people trying to do things that are normally illegal to make a deal with an Indian tribe to take advantage of their sovereignty. Anyway, Tucker is either legally exploiting loopholes or is illegally operating businesses and is getting away with it.
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27 Sep 2011, 14:46 (Ref:2961692) | #273 | ||
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Dagys has just tweeted that if some of the rumours he has heard are true then ALMS could have more P1's than WEC next year
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27 Sep 2011, 14:56 (Ref:2961696) | #274 | ||
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johndagys John Dagys
#ALMS LMP1 could end up with a higher car count than #WEC LMP1 next year considering the rumors I've been hearing. 50 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply » johndagys John Dagys Wow, just heard some possible encouraging news regarding #ALMS LMP1 in 2012. Hope to have story later in week. |
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27 Sep 2011, 14:56 (Ref:2961698) | #275 | |
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I'm not sure if I buy that, however grid numbers should improve considering that next year it'll be the one and only place where you can be on the overall podium with petrol engine. Plus if those WEC testing limitations come into place.
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