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12 Oct 2009, 02:29 (Ref:2559402) | #251 | |||
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ALL was clean, including the 45 pushing the 3 into the dirt at the hairpin and the chrome horn by Jan. all of this and the first 2 bangs on the 'vette going up the frontstretch were clean...i'll chaulk it up to a brilliant late race battle. the third and final shot by Bergie was dangerous, unsafe, and dirty. Jan's only fault was getting up beside and past him for a second time in the last 10 minutes of the race. |
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12 Oct 2009, 02:30 (Ref:2559403) | #252 | |||
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Yep. L.P. |
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12 Oct 2009, 02:54 (Ref:2559405) | #253 | ||
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So now driving straight into the back of someone in mid-corner in a effort to loosen them up is considered clean racing? If so then I want no part of it.
And there is absolutely no excuse for cutting into pit exit like he did. That is expressly forbidden and should have been a stop and hold penalty under the rules. That is easily one of the dumbest things I have ever seen from a professional driver. |
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12 Oct 2009, 03:10 (Ref:2559408) | #254 | |||
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Reminds me of the Dyson Spyder incident at Lime Rock last year, pulled across the nose of another car before he was clear and spun himself into the barriers aswell. |
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12 Oct 2009, 03:15 (Ref:2559412) | #255 | ||||
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however, the stewards disagree with me (what a stretch that is), it was deemed illegal and he was punished; correct form of punishment or not, it was issued and dealt with and has very little to do with an extremely dangerous punt, one of the worst i've ever seen, in the one of the worst place possible. |
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12 Oct 2009, 03:25 (Ref:2559417) | #256 | |||
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12 Oct 2009, 03:44 (Ref:2559420) | #257 | |||
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if people want to believe Jan wrecked himself, so be it...i don't see how you can come to that conclusion. if you feel he deserved it, that's just cruel, meseed up and ridiculous. nobody deserves to be PUNTED like that no matter what he did. Jan's bump at 11 had the same results as Jorg's in the hairpin. it's all even and hard racing until someone saw that they were losing another bare knuckles brawl and so he went for the crotch. |
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12 Oct 2009, 03:49 (Ref:2559422) | #258 | ||
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Has an outside pass at speed into Turn 2 ever succeeded? The #45 did NOT push the #3 off the pavement at the exit of 2; Mags got loose and had to collect it. And lest we forget, Jorg simply took a defensive line into that area, and Mags CHOSE to attempt an outside pass with full knowledge of the potential consequences.
I think the bump and run was uncalled-for. I also think moving the Vette over right next to pit wall was too much. However, Mags turned himself off the front of the Porsche; Hamlin did the same thing to himself on a restart today in California, and hit the end of the pit wall for his trouble. And don't go giving me the favoritism argument. I'll spell it out right here and now. My favorite driver pairing ever in ALMS was David Brabham and Jan Magnussen. If I had to pick one over the other, I'd choose Mags. That being said, I still have to say that it looked like Mags turned himself by pivoting off of the nose of the Porsche. I think the pit out being out of bounds is good. Just because there wasn't a car coming out of the lane on that particular lap doesn't make it okay. That area is out of bounds for the obvious reason, and it also makes things the same for everyone on every lap, which I think is the most fair and balanced approach you could have in that case. I'm also glad, if the rule book technically did call for a trip to the penalty box, that that was not fully enforced in this case. Mags was simply ordered to give up the advantage, gained illegally, and we got to see the battle continue from there to the finish. |
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12 Oct 2009, 03:51 (Ref:2559423) | #259 | ||
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On a different note how about Porsche's 100th class win in ALMS. 10 years, 109 Races, 100 class wins. Thats pretty damned impressive if you ask me.
Just went through past results. In around 170 class chances (including early in the series when Porsche was only an engine manu/ not chassis manu) They have won 100. If there has been a Porsche in the class, chances are... IT WON. Almost 60% races won. An amazing accomplishment. |
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12 Oct 2009, 03:51 (Ref:2559424) | #260 | |||
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As for deserving it, no he didn't deserve to hit the wall like that, but based on the tactics used by the #3 for the whole race(and most of the races) they didn't deserve to win either. |
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12 Oct 2009, 04:03 (Ref:2559427) | #261 | ||||
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12 Oct 2009, 04:06 (Ref:2559428) | #262 | |||
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12 Oct 2009, 04:06 (Ref:2559429) | #263 | ||
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Jorg's car darted right suddenly because he couldn't go any further left.
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12 Oct 2009, 04:06 (Ref:2559430) | #264 | |||
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Pit out is coicidentaly AT TURN 1. TURN 1. TURN 1. Jan went straight and cut it. Just because Turn 1 here is not as blatently obvious as blowing through a chicane DOES NOT mean you can just cut the corner. This is true for all racing, everywhere. |
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12 Oct 2009, 04:07 (Ref:2559431) | #265 | |
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It does seem to me that IMSA should revisit how it is enforcing the avoidable contact rule. Or apologize to Mr. Enge.
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12 Oct 2009, 04:08 (Ref:2559432) | #266 | |||
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12 Oct 2009, 04:11 (Ref:2559433) | #267 | ||
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12 Oct 2009, 04:11 (Ref:2559434) | #268 | ||
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Given the position of the cars, the #45 having the tail come out would have pushed the front end of the #3 out, not given the Corvette a loose condition.
The #45 did get loose coming off the first apex, but had it gathered up before the Corvette's tail swung wide on corner exit. As to the track, perhaps a curb needs to be put on the inside of Turn 1 for the racing surface in order to clarify that. And on the other side, have a curb on the outside of the pit exit lane at the same point. Leave the pavement so you still have that margin to run over if need be, but have those curbs as a very clear delineation of where the boundaries of pit road and race track, respectively, start and end. |
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12 Oct 2009, 04:18 (Ref:2559436) | #269 | ||
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the move was deemed illigal. he was religated to 2nd for it. and no...not fair. he was punished. i guess this means it's OK to punt him on a straight away?
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12 Oct 2009, 04:19 (Ref:2559437) | #270 | |||
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Plain and simple, Magnussen wouldn't have even been alongside on the front straight if he hadn't punted Jörg in the last corner. He saw that he couldn't win it, so he pulled a stupid move. |
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12 Oct 2009, 04:24 (Ref:2559438) | #271 | ||
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if you are saying Jan is dumb enough to turn into a car when he is clearly ahead of him on the track, that is your prerogitive. Jorg hit him two times forcing him as far left as he could. not being enough to stop the 'vette, the 'vette veers right after being hit for the third time, causing the end.
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12 Oct 2009, 04:26 (Ref:2559439) | #272 | ||
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12 Oct 2009, 04:30 (Ref:2559440) | #273 | ||||
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it's Saloon car racing; there's going to be bumps and bangs. comparing a tap to the rear of a car that was holding another up in a low speed corner to a high speed ridiculous punt is asinine. |
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12 Oct 2009, 04:31 (Ref:2559441) | #274 | ||
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12 Oct 2009, 04:32 (Ref:2559442) | #275 | ||
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I did not see another definitive hit of any kind once they were both over by pit wall.
I might also add that this is NOT Magnussen's first incident of significant contact and subsequent controversy. Does anyone else remember the Grand-Am race at Homestead in 2004? That one got pretty nasty between the #27 and #01, at 170+mph. Admittedly, I'd say that the guy in the Ganassi car started and finished that one, but still, Mags certainly gave some shots of his own. |
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