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17 Mar 2017, 12:59 (Ref:3719357) | #251 | |||
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(I think that bauble chap is starting to be a bad influence on me!) |
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17 Mar 2017, 16:25 (Ref:3719415) | #252 | |
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They have state of the art F1 facilties in Japan, only problem is they need to be in Oxfordshire to get the best out of them....
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17 Mar 2017, 16:58 (Ref:3719420) | #253 | ||
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That wasn't an issue back in the late '80s, when McLaren and Honda dominated. F1Guy's answer seems to make the most sense, having worked with Japanese engineers but even so, coming up to the start of their third season, you would think Honda would have made some progress.
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17 Mar 2017, 18:46 (Ref:3719448) | #254 | |
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Honda don't seem to be the force they once were (thinking back to Williams, Lotus, Mclaren and even their Jordan and BAR days). Some of the magic is missing there.
Here's hoping that they get their act together. |
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17 Mar 2017, 20:27 (Ref:3719464) | #255 | ||
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The Japanese CAN do a good job (just like anyone else). And I expect that things today are much more complicated than they were than in the late 80's. Some comments (not yours bjohnsonsmith) here have a very eurocentric snobbish slant. They speak to real or perceived cultural issues of the Japanese, but tend to ignore other negative stereotypes that may apply to their own culture (e.g. German engineered items are overly complex and fragile). Note, while there may very well be some cultural issues at play, I am very much against painting an entire group with a wide brush and calling it a day. Regardless, I do acknowledge that the center of gravity within the world of high performance race engines (with F1 in particular) lives in Europe. So that means... yes, if you want to pull in a consultant, they statistically probably will be a european. I think I have mentioned in another thread, but Honda really has a different philosophy of how they staff up projects like this. They rotate in-house and younger engineers through their motorsports programs. That can hurt as you lose experience and domain knowledge, but it is good in that it distributes the experience a bit more evenly and that helps them outside of the motorsports side of things. But... that approach is really is not a recipe for success if your goal is competition. I am sure at some level Honda understands they make their own job harder, but also realize the benefits. Honda went radical with the new engine. It apparently is not a refinement of the prior engine. They could have just revised the prior engine, but they didn't want to just catch up, but tried the risky move of leapfroging. Yes, knowledge carries over even if you start again from scratch, but I expect they are having problems with whatever their new concepts are. There is plenty of speculation as to what it is, but they have a number of new things going on. One is the switch to a TJI pre-combustion system (which is difficult). There is also speculation that Honda spent too much time experimenting with different concepts until a late date, vs. picking a specific a path early and then refine it. The upside is that maybe if they did pick a good concept they just need to polish it. Richard |
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17 Mar 2017, 22:20 (Ref:3719475) | #256 | |||
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17 Mar 2017, 22:49 (Ref:3719478) | #257 | ||
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As Private Fraser would say"They are doomed,if they continue in this manner,Captain Mainwaring!"
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17 Mar 2017, 23:29 (Ref:3719487) | #258 | ||
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1. discrimination against persons of a certain age group. 2. a tendency to regard older persons as debilitated, unworthy of attention, or unsuitable for employment. I think subservient or obeisant is what you are looking for Knighty. Anyway, I guess it's time for Honda to fire Captain Mainwaring's butt and move on! |
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18 Mar 2017, 21:22 (Ref:3719803) | #259 | |||
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20 Mar 2017, 00:13 (Ref:3720083) | #260 | ||
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A few whispers from the Melbourne pitlane suggests that McLaren has a get out clause (effective immediately) for their engine deal with Honda Racing, as it was a deal made with previous McLaren F1 management, which is no longer in effect.
We know Ron Dennis is no longer with McLaren F1, but does that now make the McLaren/Honda agreement null and void?? Was a clause put in by RD that if he was to be ousted the Honda deal goes with him? I guess it's all in the fine print of the agreement. Something for the lawyers. I'm not sure that McLaren could (or would) dump Honda at a this late a stage. It would be a massive blow for Honda if McLaren were to part with them at the early stages of 2017. And a blow for McLaren financially. If the divorce was to go ahead, it would take 7-9 weeks to re-engineer the MCL32 to drop in the new engine, depending who McLaren deal with. Could we see McLaren powered by a different engine post the summer break? Quite possible from what the rumours are suggesting. |
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20 Mar 2017, 00:15 (Ref:3720084) | #261 | |||
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20 Mar 2017, 00:22 (Ref:3720086) | #262 | ||
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I'll ask my sauce. Get back to in a few.
Ok... Tom says no, and Barb says yes. Last edited by F1Guy; 20 Mar 2017 at 00:35. |
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20 Mar 2017, 01:07 (Ref:3720090) | #263 | ||
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21 Mar 2017, 10:39 (Ref:3720383) | #264 | ||
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21 Mar 2017, 11:09 (Ref:3720388) | #265 | |||
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22 Mar 2017, 22:01 (Ref:3720772) | #266 | ||
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Mr Boullier's take on a key Honda issue: Deadlines? We don't got no stinking deadlines
I'm assuming that he is being diplomatic with his media utterings but sounds to me like there are really serious problems in the background. It is definitely the thing that outsiders find hardest to deal with in racing teams - the fact that deadlines are absolute (the race starts when it starts, if you're not white ready, bad luck). As a result, teams tend to get things done fast - go hard at it and put in long hours which means suppliers or in this case engine partners need to have the same approach for the whole thing to work. |
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22 Mar 2017, 22:23 (Ref:3720779) | #267 | ||
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23 Mar 2017, 05:29 (Ref:3720816) | #268 | ||
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23 Mar 2017, 10:16 (Ref:3720862) | #269 | |
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Interesting to hear Autosport's season preview podcast, in which they mention in fighting at McLaren. They need to sort their loaves out and work together to get the best out of the team, car and engine if that is the case, because it's only disrupting them at the moment
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23 Mar 2017, 17:03 (Ref:3720936) | #270 | |
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24 Mar 2017, 11:27 (Ref:3721126) | #271 | ||
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A very good report on Hondas situation by Joe Saward......lightweight components = low stiffness = vey low natural frequency = severe vibrations within the working rpm range of the motor.......I'm betting Honda built a super lightweight crankshaft, probably formed by laser-sintering, so could be wafer thin wall section, but subsequently very flexible = vibrations
https://joesaward.wordpress.com/2017/03/17/lets-be-sensible-about-honda/ . |
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24 Mar 2017, 12:06 (Ref:3721135) | #272 | ||
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Honda F1 chief Yusuke Hasegawa has apparently just announced that Honda are now working on yet another new engine!
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24 Mar 2017, 12:08 (Ref:3721137) | #273 | ||
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24 Mar 2017, 13:09 (Ref:3721156) | #274 | ||
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lets be honest, what else could they have been working on!......also McLaren have more to lose than gain by driopping honda, we are talking hundreds of millions of lost revenue if they ditch Honda, which could easily bankrupt McLaren as a company, hence its worth fixing
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24 Mar 2017, 14:19 (Ref:3721184) | #275 | |||
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Assuming we are looking at the same articles, they are going to be releasing a revised version of this engine somewhere around Monaco. And, IMHO that is pretty much to be expected. You have a series of fly away races in which McLaren is generally stuck with the current spec (+/-). I would actually be shocked if a revision wasn't arriving around that time (or earlier if Honda is able to make it happen that fast). This is actually good news. So no need to invent additional drama. Quote:
I have also read speculation about a different firing order and/or aggressive cylinder deactivation (run as V4 at times) causing problems. I wonder if part of this revision is to a different firing order (new crank and cam much like Porsche had to do with their LMP1 v4 after vibration issues when the engine was in the car for the first time) and I have heard that maybe the cylinder deactivation can be mostly solved (or reduced) by mapping changes. Lastly, while Joe Saward gets on my nerves at times, that article is a healthy dose of reality. Especially around the implications of McLaren dumping Honda during 2017 season (highly unlikely). That is exactly the reasons I predicted in the time capsule thread that they would remain partners for 2017. I tend to believe Honda will get this right, but the question is how deep into the season will it take. Even now, we are seeing McLaren run FP1 and FP2 without the types of failures they had in pre-season testing. Granted, they are likely restricted by specific boundaries (lower revs, etc.) that will limit performance. I expect the immediate goal (using the engines they have at the moment) is to get laps and ensure the cars finish races. The first race or two may be nothing more than extended test sessions for McLaren to make up for lost time. Richard |
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