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12 Sep 2012, 16:26 (Ref:3134875) | #251 | |||
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Knockhill is a difficult one, when I've been part of big events that have run there people have come but IME people tend to make the trip to distant places once over few years so they might go to Knockhill one year and then Cadwell the next and Anglesey the next - they tend not to go to say Knockhill each year. I guess the BTCC supports are different because of series entries and probably because it is more important for every competitor to get to every round. I think what I've seen more in the last couple of years is competitors sitting out rounds of a series or a championship as they don't have the budget for the whole year. We seem to have quite a lot of competitors but not all of them doing all events for cost reasons. Quote:
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12 Sep 2012, 16:42 (Ref:3134881) | #252 | |||
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12 Sep 2012, 16:44 (Ref:3134884) | #253 | |||
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12 Sep 2012, 17:54 (Ref:3134915) | #254 | |||
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12 Sep 2012, 18:28 (Ref:3134924) | #255 | |||
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12 Sep 2012, 19:31 (Ref:3134949) | #256 | ||
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People keep banging on about entry fees as if that is the problem. IMO the problem is diluted grids. If people want to race they prefer to be on a large grid. Clubs look at things the other way. They think that opening up regs to more modified cars will encourage entries. What they don't see is that all they do is drag cars from existing series.
It's a vicious circle, the entrant pays to race, but the clubs don't cover the cost, ergo the fees go up, and the entries go down. Organizers such as JDC or Masters work on a business case. The entrants pay their fees to race and the entry fees, albeit higher than a club entry fee, cover the costs. Ergo the customer gets to race regularly. So, you pays yer money and takes yer choice. Moan about fees and thus don't race, or pay to be guaranteed an event. Doesn't solve the grid dilution but with all the moaning going on, I doubt anything will. |
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12 Sep 2012, 20:00 (Ref:3134961) | #257 | |||
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12 Sep 2012, 20:09 (Ref:3134972) | #258 | |||
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12 Sep 2012, 20:15 (Ref:3134977) | #259 | ||
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As regards championships running at tracks that are either miles away or tracks that people don't like, I have been in a championship that gave double points for such venues and that helped fill the grids.
I know that money is a big issue but I note that the Spa races are well supported and they ain't cheap (I had to remortgage my house) I think the offer of free ale to some of you tenthers made you enter |
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Balls of steel (knob of butter) They're Asking For Larkins. ( Proper beer) not you're Eurofizz crap. Hace más calor en España. Me han conocido a hablar un montón cojones! Send any cheques and cash to PO box 1 Lagos Nigeria Africa ! |
12 Sep 2012, 20:16 (Ref:3134978) | #260 | |||
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I am not a fan of the fact that circuits have their own organising arm that seem to get bigger and bigger....but you see, just as the TESCO model...it is wooden dolllars for them and so...the price can be so much cheaper than say an organising club that is independant. Last edited by MartinSmith; 12 Sep 2012 at 20:22. |
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Martin Smith Clerk of the Course, 3 times Race of Remembrance class Winner Organising Committee and regs writer of ROR, Chair and owner of 360 Motor Racing Club |
12 Sep 2012, 20:21 (Ref:3134983) | #261 | |||
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I wonder how many races those entered have done this season though? Possibly not many,and,as you say Gordon,people will travel great distances for something thats free. |
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Living the dream,Chief instruktor and racing on the worlds best circuits-The Nordschleife and Spa.Getting to drive the worlds best cars-someone has to do it, so glad its me. |
12 Sep 2012, 20:21 (Ref:3134984) | #262 | ||
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Martin Smith Clerk of the Course, 3 times Race of Remembrance class Winner Organising Committee and regs writer of ROR, Chair and owner of 360 Motor Racing Club |
12 Sep 2012, 20:26 (Ref:3134990) | #263 | ||
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We will have to stop this Andy....we've agreed with each other several times on this thread ....now you are just going too far!!! ha ha (thanks by the way)
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Martin Smith Clerk of the Course, 3 times Race of Remembrance class Winner Organising Committee and regs writer of ROR, Chair and owner of 360 Motor Racing Club |
13 Sep 2012, 07:31 (Ref:3135217) | #264 | ||
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+1 Peter M!
Just so that the information is out there, what are people's target events/calendars/prices? It would help give organisers here some idea of what some of the competitors actually want. I'll get the ball rolling: £600 - £800 entry fee but in return two or preferably three races and practice over the weekend. I prefer 30 minute races. Circuits would be good ones with decent paddocks and facilities, reasonable hotels nearby, distance from me less of a problem because I'll be away for a few days at a time. Maximum 4 events per year, reasonably high profile. Ummm, sounds like the race series I used to do...am I regretting selling my car and building an ineligible one? Yup! Other people may prefer more race meetings but shorter races. What is your preferred entry fee? What do you perceive as the value? Give the clubs something positive to go on rather than talking about what you DON'T want. |
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Midgetman - known as Max Tyler to the world. MaxAttaq! |
13 Sep 2012, 08:31 (Ref:3135240) | #265 | ||
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For me, I hate to miss Spa. I like to race at Donington, Oulton, Brands Hatch and Silverstone. I like 45mins to 1 hour races (excluding the Spa 6hrs).
So a season of 45 mins (or 1 hour races) at Spa, Oulton, Silverstone, Donington, Brands Hatch, Snet would be fine. Entry fees are immaterial (up to a point of course) if I get to the events. 1 meeting each month is also good for me. |
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I've decided to stop reaching out to people. I'm just going to contact them instead. |
13 Sep 2012, 08:48 (Ref:3135253) | #266 | ||
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See ive done my bit to be a "helpful organisor"
Someone wanted to enter the race at Brands, but had only just put in a new engine in their car and has had no real time to test it, so, we (believing YOU are our CUSTOMERS) agreed to let them pay some of the entry with a view to them qualifying, if the car is fine and dandy and they complete qualifying, then they will pay the balance and take the grid ...if on the other hand, it all goes a bit pete tong for them, they will not take the grid and they go home....thereby its a win all round because, this competitor was not going to enter as the full entry was a risk,but, this way, it works for us both. Now, these little things may not make a big difference but it is a way of treating you the customer as exactly that. One thing that is so obvious from this thread is that drivers, in truth, want to be treated as customers...want to feel loved for want of a better word and I think that is may be what is lacking now in Motorsport.....so thats why we at 360....give you a hug! In this day and age this type of thinking can be done and may have to be done. |
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Martin Smith Clerk of the Course, 3 times Race of Remembrance class Winner Organising Committee and regs writer of ROR, Chair and owner of 360 Motor Racing Club |
13 Sep 2012, 08:57 (Ref:3135260) | #267 | |||
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Claire, thats commendable and exactly what I mean when I talk of more flexibility. |
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13 Sep 2012, 09:04 (Ref:3135265) | #268 | ||
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Which is exactly why I asked what people WANT Al. Maybe people like you are in the minority now and that's exactly why motor sport is struggling because it hasn't adapted to the new requirements, but instead has just put up its prices to cover the shortfall. Let's wait and see before making judgments. You, me, Peter, none of us know the answers without asking the questions.
Of course this is only a very small, very unscientific poll. The MSA should do a root and branch review with the licence renewals. Don't answer the questionaire, don't get the licence LOL. |
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Midgetman - known as Max Tyler to the world. MaxAttaq! |
13 Sep 2012, 09:06 (Ref:3135268) | #269 | ||
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To Max, I am personally one of the people I mentioned above that would prefer to be part of something, a club and a championship and race more regularly say 10 meetings a year and just have the one race at each meeting I care little for double headers or better still for the same entry fee something like Rod Birley promotes, two 10 minute sprints. I think at my level that's a good format as it gives you a 2nd bite at the cherry if the first race goes pear shaped as so often happens. The enjoyment for me is the weekend at the track, meeting friends, having a beer or Barby, the craic, the atmosphere the weekend away from the humdrum of life the whole thing, the actually racing is to me less important. How much do I think is a fair fee for this type of racing, £150 absolute max and preferably less.
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13 Sep 2012, 09:16 (Ref:3135274) | #270 | ||
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Al,
As far as I know the HSCC, HRDC, MGCC are all clubs which I support and with whom I have raced this year. It will be 6 events and 9 races. What exactly is your point? |
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13 Sep 2012, 09:28 (Ref:3135282) | #271 | |||
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JT, Steve Carr etc know what is involved and help whenever they can. |
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Simes43 |
13 Sep 2012, 09:52 (Ref:3135291) | #272 | ||
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My point is as I wrote it I thought it was clear enough, what you have mentioned above are i assume all different events and clubs and I noticed you often seem to cancel at the last minute for I assume work commitments which is fair enough I did go to pains to point out I wasn't sniping at you, if its 3 or 4 prestigious meetings you do that's fine especially as it appears you have to make a long trip from abroad to do them but I think the concern expressed here is more for the regular club racer that wants to do a whole seasons racing in a particular championship not the cherry picking.
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13 Sep 2012, 09:59 (Ref:3135294) | #273 | ||
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2 for fewer, bigger meetings. 1 for sticking with one club but racing more often.
Interesting amount you want to pay Al. For benchmark Club 100 A&D karting sprint series is £166 per meeting, Gurston Down hill climb is £100, most kart races around £45. |
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Midgetman - known as Max Tyler to the world. MaxAttaq! |
13 Sep 2012, 10:21 (Ref:3135305) | #274 | ||
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You did ask With nice grids, drop the fathing about with the green flag laps etc and get on with it, you could probably squeeze one or two more races in a meeting so why not?
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13 Sep 2012, 10:32 (Ref:3135311) | #275 | |||
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Frankly, I find your constant criticism, which appears to be based solely on jealousy, somewhat tiresome. So, to make it clear. I have paid annual subscriptions to four clubs and three organisers, thus I don't think you can criticise my support of club racing. I've entered something like 9 races this season. I have not cancelled any events this season, although I acknowledge that I had to do so in 2010. If I were to enter a championship, then I'd do a number of things which apparently are far too difficult for you: 1. I'd make sure I had a car that didn't spew oil virtually every time I put it on track; 2, I would ensure I had a fuel tank large enough to cope with a series of races, thereby giving me flexibility to do what races I want (see your moan about the 40mins V8 race at Donington); and 3, I'd ensure my engine lasted at least half the season. However whilst acknowledging that bad things can happen, all of the above are a constant theme which has defined every season since you've been posting on this forum. Yet all you do is complain that people aren't running races short enough to suit your fuel capacity, which for the reasons stated above doesn't actually matter anyway, or cheap enough to suit an important entrant like you. And finally, I don't enter championships generally because with my need to be in many places I can't guarantee (as you surmise) to be on the grid for every race, thus if I do turn up I may be accused of stealing points from regular competitors, a position with which I agree and which I think is unfair on them. So, I go back to my position, which is: I like to race at certain circuits and if the organisers get the timing right, I enter. I don't count the cost of entry fees and I don't count the cost of time off, which I can assure you Al, is a significant sum of money. However I do have one gripe. The cost of flights has increased by over 30% this year. |
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