Group A BMW M3 E30 - General info and history

[bigears]

What a co-incidence!

I am trying to find out who is the BMW driver at the BTCC race at the 1989 Birmingham Superprix:



I am guessing it is Mike O'Brien or Alan Minshaw?

I think it is the latter but then what number did Mike O'Brien drive at the Superprix?

I am trying to fill in the gaps in my research you see.

[KA]

Originally Posted by bigears

What a co-incidence!

I am trying to find out who is the BMW driver at the BTCC race at the 1989 Birmingham Superprix:



I am guessing it is Mike O'Brien or Alan Minshaw?

I think it is the latter but then what number did Mike O'Brien drive at the Superprix?

I am trying to fill in the gaps in my research you see.

Probably Minshaw, though a number of other drivers appeared in Alan's M3 during 1988-89. I don't think I recall Mike O'Brien being one of them- his regular drive that season was a Terry Drury-run Sierra RS500, #17 I think

[bigears]

Ah, thank you.

A bit more digging into Mike O'Brien and he does drive in the Drury Sierra RS500.

Anyway, what was the official team name, Alan Minshaw drove at the Superprix round?

According to my research, it is the Castrol TXT Racing team, is that correct?

[KA]

I don't have any race programmes from '89 to hand right now, but from memory, Minshaw's cars (at that time the M3 and Class C Golf GTI) were generally entered under the name of his business 'Demon Tweeks'- he did have additional 'Castrol TXT' sponsorship at some point (very vague memory is that the Castrol backing was more prominent on the Golf than the M3?), so that could well have been included in the name they were entered under?

[bigears]

That's explains it. Thank you for clearing it up.

One more question, what sponsorship did Nettan Lingdren carry for the 1990 BTCC race at the Superprix? I got no information or photos of her BMW.

[KA]

Originally Posted by bigears

That's explains it. Thank you for clearing it up.

One more question, what sponsorship did Nettan Lingdren carry for the 1990 BTCC race at the Superprix? I got no information or photos of her BMW.

Nettan's BMW quite often didn't have much in the way of obvious sponsorship (from memory it was either plain red or black?) and I've got a vague memory that what there was tended to change from race to race- I reckon we might need to see a picture to answer that one

[KA]

Found a pic of Nettan's M3- in plain black
http://www.supertouring.co.uk/galler...ntrants_4.html

[davyboy]

A lot of current and former BMW dealers on that page isn't there.

[Jesper OH]

Nettan Lindgren from the Swedish championship:

1989
http://www.teambild.se/arkiv/details...1600ff9b8fc5b6

1990 Group A 2.5 Sport Evolution, by the look of it
http://www.teambild.se/arkiv/details...1600ff9b8fc5b6

So, she must have done a bit of spec. swapping during the '90 season.

Jesper

[Mike Sheraton]

ahh, i could do with that demon tweeks model, i love the car and livery

[KA]

Originally Posted by Jesper OH

Nettan Lindgren from the Swedish championship:

1989
http://www.teambild.se/arkiv/details...1600ff9b8fc5b6

1990 Group A 2.5 Sport Evolution, by the look of it
http://www.teambild.se/arkiv/details...1600ff9b8fc5b6

So, she must have done a bit of spec. swapping during the '90 season.

Jesper

I've been wondering about that as well- From very vague memory, Nettan's 1989 BTCC M3 was red, so almost certainly the same car as in the pic you linked to- if it's a 2.3 litre Group A car she was running in Sweden, then no spec change would have been needed for the UK outings.

The 1990 car is a different story though- if she was racing the car in 2.5 Sport Evo spec in Sweden, then it would have needed converting to BTCC 2.0 spec every time it came over to the UK.

What would be involved in that? At least an engine change, and replacing the 'Sport Evo' aero kit with the basic Group A version. Anything else- gearbox etc?

Alternatively, did she have access to another M3?.

The BTCC car was definitely plain black, as in the link a couple of posts back. I finally tracked down a pic I took of it at Brands in 1990, and I'll post it as soon as I can- think I've got a few more M3 shots to add as well

[Jesper OH]

Originally Posted by KA

I've been wondering about that as well- From very vague memory, Nettan's 1989 BTCC M3 was red, so almost certainly the same car as in the pic you linked to- if it's a 2.3 litre Group A car she was running in Sweden, then no spec change would have been needed for the UK outings.

The 1990 car is a different story though- if she was racing the car in 2.5 Sport Evo spec in Sweden, then it would have needed converting to BTCC 2.0 spec every time it came over to the UK.

What would be involved in that? At least an engine change, and replacing the 'Sport Evo' aero kit with the basic Group A version. Anything else- gearbox etc?

Alternatively, did she have access to another M3?.

The BTCC car was definitely plain black, as in the link a couple of posts back. I finally tracked down a pic I took of it at Brands in 1990, and I'll post it as soon as I can- think I've got a few more M3 shots to add as well

Here is what I have on Nettan Lindgren's 1990 season, racing #9 in Sweden and #90 in the BTCC.

1990-04-13 BTCC01 Oulton Park, unknown o/a result, 4th in class B
1990-04-29 BTCC02 Donington Park, unknown o/a result, 4th in class B sharing with Ian Flux
1990-05-06 STCC01 Mantorp Park, 14th/DNF
1990-05-27 STCC02 Ring Knutstorp, 4th
1990-06-10 STCC03 Anderstorp, 7th
1990-07-01 BTCC05 Oulton Park, DNF
1990-07-15 BTCC06 Silverstone, 13th o/a, 6th in class B
1990-07-22 BTCC07 Brands Hatch, 7th o/a, 4th in class B sharing with Per-Gunnar Andersson
1990-07-29 STCC05 Kinnekulle Ring, 6th
1990-08-06 STCC06 Ring Knutstorp, 13th/DNF
1990-08-19 BTCC09 Brand Hatch, 11th o/a, 5th in class B
1990-08-27 BTCC10 Birmingham, 10th o/a, 5th in class B
1990-09-16 BTCC11 Donington Park, 10th o/a, 4th in class B
1990-09-23 BTCC12 Thruxton, 5th o/a, 1st in class B
1990-10-07 BTCC13 Silverstone, DNF

Nettan missed the the forth round of the Swedish Group A series at Falkenberg for the Silverstone GP support race on July 15. BTCC rounds 3, 4 and 8 missed due to Swedish races. She might also have raced at the one-off Nordic Championship round at Hämeenlinna, Finnland but I only have the top-4 results from that race and Nettan is not among them. I have the date as May 5th, which is obviously wrong, since race winner Per-Gunnar Andersson and others was qualifying for the opening round of the Swedish series at Mantorp that very same day! The Finnish race was likely held on May 13th then.

The above indicate four swaps over the season. I'm not too much into what swaps would include, but engine, aero kit and wheels would be my guess. I think the gearbox would be the same. Considering her minimalistic sponsorship I would think that only one car was at her disposal.

Jesper

[KA]

Thanks Jesper- only 4 swaps wouldn't be too much hassle I guess, although looking at the dates I notice the car racing in Sweden and the BTCC on consecutive weekends, which would have needed a fairly quick turnaround...

As you said, Nettan didn't seem to be running with much in the way of sponsorship (I'm not sure I remember any appearing on the car in it's BTCC appearances), so a single car seems more probable

[KA]

Originally Posted by Mike Sheraton

ahh, i could do with that demon tweeks model, i love the car and livery

A nice pic of the Demon Tweeks M3 in action at the Silverstone classic a couple of weeks ago,
http://tentenths.com/forum/attachmen...9&d=1249980142

photo by John Turner, posted here:
http://tentenths.com/forum/showpost....&postcount=432

[rallyford]

Great site, any idea where I need to go if I want to buy a M3 Rally ?
Thank You Very much

[KA]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Other than the synonymous 'works' BMW livery as illustrated in your last post (which is legendary I think) one of the nicest liveries I saw that day was Allen Berg's Tic-Tac Tauber entry.

Not on the pace but it stood out that's for sure. Have you got a pic of that one to post up?

Finally found a couple of pics I took of this one- unfortunately they're not particularly good, but I'll see if I've got a better shot

Originally Posted by ian beckett

Excellent Jesper and it inspired me to go through my files.This is what I found...1) the Tic Tac car is I think that which crashed and was destroyed at the opening round of the '91 DTM at Zolder driven by Michael Ickenstein.This car had a green interior.It was replaced by an ex-'90 Lafitte/Bigazzi car bought for DM150,000!This car was in identical colours but had a white interior and is the car seen at the Donington race driven by Allen Berg..

think the white interior is just about visible in these pics, compared wth the green interior of the shell in the pics Jesper linked to a while back

[KA]

Originally Posted by ian beckett

Excellent Jesper and it inspired me to go through my files.This is what I found...1) the Tic Tac car is I think that which crashed and was destroyed at the opening round of the '91 DTM at Zolder driven by Michael Ickenstein.This car had a green interior.It was replaced by an ex-'90 Lafitte/Bigazzi car bought for DM150,000!This car was in identical colours but had a white interior and is the car seen at the Donington race driven by Allen Berg.

Finally tracked down a couple of pics of the TicTac car at Donington in '91- Pic quality isn't great, but I think the white interior is fairly evident....

....and the TicTac livery really is such a nice colourscheme

[JimmyPet]

Hello Guys,
Fantastic thread.
My name is Jim Pettinato, E30 M3 enthusiast from the US.
I own E30 M3 chassis 068.
Ex Prodrive car, build circa 1987 I believe.
I was told by one of its previous owners it was driven by Sytner in 1988, then there is a huge gap in the car's history until it surfaced in Spain.

Its currently restored to a 1988 Prodrive livery.

I have been trying to piece together its history for a long time and information has been very sparse.
Many people on this thread seem to have fantastic information on these chassis and ex-BTCC cars.

After reading every single post in this thread I "think" the car described in a post by Ian Beckett on page 13 might be my car:

In '89 Ronic Sport ran John Llewellyn in ex-Prodrive/Sytner '88 car.This was then run by Burke-Ratcliffe Racing in '90 for Mahony,backed by Arquati.They then ran Ian Flux in the car in'91.The same car was run for Flux in '92 by Roy Kennedy Racing.

This timeline might fit, it would describe the huge lack of information I have from 1989 to 1991,,, and my car does have some traces of red and green paint underneath it, that could coincide with the Arquati / Mahony livery.
It also has some 1992 RAC / BTCC tech stickers on it, making sense it could be the Kennedy / Flux car from 1992.

This is all speculation fueled by Ian Becketts post, but hell thats more speculation than I have been able to pull together in my years of owning and restoring this car.

If anyone has any additional information on M3 - 1 068, I would love to hear it. I am trying to make a history of the car to include when taking it to vintage events.

Even if no one does, thanks for a fantastic thread about the race E30 M3s.
So little detail exists on chassis numbers from that period. This thread is a wonderful resource.

Cheers
jimmy p.

[Alex E]

Hi Jimmy,
Your car, #68 was built in December `87 & was the 6th `88 spec car built. It was supplied direct to Prodrive & was originally intended as a rally car ?? But maybe tha changed & it became a race car, I think you would know if it had been a rally car !!

Hope that helps a little.

Alex.

[brown dog]

Hi Jimmy,
get yourself a copy of the 1988 BTCC from Duke Video if you haven't already got it. It shows a brief tour through the Prodrive workshop where Frank Sytner is discussing his car with the engineers. There is a big lineup of the rally as well as the touring cars in various states of build.

cheers Conrad

[JimmyPet]

Thanks Guys.
Alex, that backs up the info I had received early on when I got my chassis,,, well except the rally car part!
Destined to be a rally car,,, quite possible.
It may have actually been for a while if thats the case.

My work takes me around the world traveling quite a bit, and as such I'm frequently in the UK.
Over the years of owning & restoring this Prodrive car I had corresponded quite a bit with the gentleman at Prodrive who runs the heritage center.

Upon a visit to the UK with a day off in Birmingham I was lucky enough to be invited out to Prodrive to get a bit of a tour (actually it was a spectacular tour, they were very gracious).

Come to find out the building that is the Heritage Center today,,, was the workshop that used to be the RACE shop where they built all the E30 M3 program cars.
The guys told me that during the early days of the E30 M3 program the race and rally cars were built side by side,,, and sometimes due to necessity, some chassis even switched duty between race and rally use depending on what was bent or broken at the time.
So Alex,,, it certainly at some point could have been a rally car haha, but its very much outfitted as a road racer, and all the spares I got with the car reflect a full road racing past, but one can only guess how many changes its gone through since 1988.

Thanks for the info. Much appreciated. I'll take any info or speculation you guys may have haha.
Cheers
jimmy p

[brown dog]

Hi again Jimmy,
that short bit of video footage I described shows the outside of the building, and inside are the rally cars and touring cars, side by side as you described.
I read somewhere that the Prodrive rally cars were built on the Matter shells, but they removed the cross brace that runs from the RH lower A pillar through the tunnel to the LH strut tower, as the navigator requires that for legroom! So I doubt any car that was used as a Rally car would still have that bar there. That and the fact that you can always tell an old rally car, as it will be much more beaten up than an old circuit car!

cheers Conrad

[ian beckett]

Hello Jimmy,good to see you appearing on here.I read your first post with interest particularly about your car having been in Spain.If you can give any clues as to its drivers/team/colours/sponsors from that time I can probably piece together some more information for you.There were approximately 8 cars racing in the Spanish championship at any one time.Look forward to hearing from you, Ian.

[JimmyPet]

Hey Guys,
Thanks much for the info.

Conrad, I do have a copy of a 1988 BTCC season, I actually think I have all 4 seasons 88 thru 91. I have not watched them in a while. I will dig out 1988. I dont know if they are the "Duke" production though. Not sure if there were multiple productions of BTCC Year In Review.

Ian, The way I understand it from talking to one of the cars previous owners a fellow named Javier Marino in Spain,,, is that the car went to Spain somewhat "retired" and into the hands of a collector, he actually told me the mans name, but that laptop with that info was stolen in South Africa in 2004.
In any case, the car sat in a warehouse with a few other retired race cars, until Mr. Marino discovered it and talked him out of it, his intention to use in hillclimbing competition. Mr Marino ran it in hillclimbs around Spain and Europe until he realised the 2.0 litre BTCC spec was not powerful enough for his needs and he then purchased a 2.5 litre ex-Hartge DTM car for same purposes.

So I do not believe the car actually competed in "Touring Car Racing" while in Spain (at least according to one of its previous owners).

The car is all white, and looks to have always been all white, there isn't so much of a hint of a repaint into other color anywhere with the odd exception of some red and green paint underneath the side rocker covers which coincide somewhat with the red and green stripes of the Arquati / Mahony car.

After seing that red and green, I had sometimes thought that this car could have been that Arquati car, but until now, didnt believe that the Arquati car was an ex-Prodrive construct.

Knowing the car has probably always been white, plain white, and that it had some BTCC duty in 1992, I then searched archives for any plain white E30 M3s that competed in 1992, which led me to the Roy Kennedy / Ian Flux entry,,, which I read somewhere was an ex Prodrive chassis.
This links directly into the post you made, that I quoted above.
I really think that the car in the chain you described may be my car.

In '89 Ronic Sport ran John Llewellyn in ex-Prodrive/Sytner '88 car.This was then run by Burke-Ratcliffe Racing in '90 for Mahony,backed by Arquati.They then ran Ian Flux in the car in'91.The same car was run for Flux in '92 by Roy Kennedy Racing.

The only contradiction I have to that theory, is the previous owner Mr Marino told me that he believed the car had competed up to 1990 at Prodrive in some capacity before being sold or mothballed.
He quoted me some results of the car under Synter in 1989, that are backed up by the results on record. This could certainly have been a mistake though as it was still one full owner removed from its last BTCC action.

Would you have any photos or links to photos of the cars in that chain you posted?
Thanks again!
jimmy

[jimothy84]

Hi guys, great thread, I've loved reading through bits of it, very informative.

I was wondering if anyone had any information, or even better any pictures, of the Valier Motorsports entry into the 1993 Belgian Procar series, specifically the number 7 car driven by Thierry Tassin. i can only find pictures of scale models, like this...
http://www.bimmer.jp/minicars/mc283_M3.jpg

pictures of the front end, rear end, and close up of any of the sponsor logos would be fantastic help, i've really been stumped by this.

(i like to create replicas of race cars for the xbox 360 game Forza Motorsport 2, i've been focusing on E30 M3s for the past couple of months. there are lots (and lots, and lots, and lots :P) of DTM replicas made by other gamers, however i like the more obscure ones. i have finished replicas of the 1991 Vic Lee Motorsport #11 M3, driven by Will Hoy, and a 1988 Autotech Racing #35, again driven by Will Hoy. If you guys would like to see some pictures of my handy work I'd glady post some up!)

thanks for reading guys, and thanks in advance for any help.

J