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1 Mar 2012, 12:02 (Ref:3033523) | #2726 | |||
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Williams Hybrid Power has just announced officially that they are the supplier for Audi's hybrid system: http://www.williamshybridpower.com/n...-by-audi-sport
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The press release also lists the benefits of their flywheel accumulator compared to other technologies such as batteries, ultra-capacitors or mechanical flywheels. Quote:
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1 Mar 2012, 12:14 (Ref:3033526) | #2727 | ||
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1 Mar 2012, 12:15 (Ref:3033527) | #2728 | ||
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I thought I read somewhere that one area the R18 could have improved was slow corner grip? I can't remember where I read/heard this at. Was probably somewhere in this thread |
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1 Mar 2012, 12:20 (Ref:3033530) | #2729 | |
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Maybe, I read about that in the Imola round but putting the hybrid power to the rear wheels would make that even worse correct?
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1 Mar 2012, 12:48 (Ref:3033535) | #2730 | ||
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That was probably part of the rumored/suspected front suspension redesign--if they were going to use front wheel electric motors, you'd need to have some hefty mechanical grip to harness that power, no matter the speed. And Audi wanted to have improved mechanical grip to make the R18 better in slow corners and maybe go back to the R8 like characteristics where the mechanical grip works more in concert with the areo grip, and not be so aero dependent.
And the R18 e-tron and the R18 Ultra are supposed to be virtually the same aside from the hybrid system. So Audi may've killed two birds with one stone, at least in theory. |
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1 Mar 2012, 13:51 (Ref:3033562) | #2731 | |
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A while back I tried to calculate the theoretical benefit from a hybrid system under the current LMP1 rules, by comparing the energy from the fuel with that electric energy from the KERS. In my analysis I assumed 7 charge/discharge cycle for every lap around the Le Mans circuit. See http://tentenths.com/forum/showthrea...40#post3017840
Someone on the EI forum did similar calculations, but he assumed only 5 KERS activations per lap. See http://endurance-info.com/version2/f...202585#p202585 Remark: his numbers for diesel powered cars are wrong because the fuel tank is 58 liter for hybrid diesels and 60 liter for non-hybrid diesels. It seems that I underestimated the number of braking zone at Le Mans. The Autocar article about the R18 e-tron quattro suggests around 10 cycles per lap. This means that flywheel accumulator has to be "able to cope with 3600 energy 'cycles' (charge/de-charge) per 24-hour race." Last edited by gwyllion; 1 Mar 2012 at 13:57. |
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1 Mar 2012, 13:56 (Ref:3033563) | #2732 | |||
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The basic front setup (with more mechanical drop of course) weights less than the hybrid one. If the Ultra is virtually the same, it either needs additional weight in the front, or somehow shifted some of the rear weight forward. In any case, the Ultra will probably have a better weight distribution than the e-tron and therefor better breaking into and through the corners. |
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1 Mar 2012, 14:03 (Ref:3033566) | #2733 | |
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Audi will just put 80 kg of ballast in the nose of the ultra, where the electric motors are located in the e-tron quattro. This ballast can be moved around to the liking of the drivers.
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1 Mar 2012, 14:22 (Ref:3033568) | #2734 | ||
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http://www.86400.fr/articles/207-aud...attro-au-mans- has some short comment from Baretzky about the 2012 diesel engine.
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1 Mar 2012, 14:37 (Ref:3033575) | #2735 | ||
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I don't think that Audi will be at any severe disadvantage at all, since TMG has to run the same size restrictor that Rebellion's Toyota engines do (if Rebellion ran one restrictor like TMG's engine does), and the R18 will still have a sizable torque advantage, being a diesel, and the fact that the diesel engine has so much more torque probably governed the choice to run the power to the front wheels.
That, and Audi at Sebring in '09 when they won was using about 10% less power in the R15 than the R10 a year earlier, and had a draggier car, but were still much faster than the R10 was at Sebring, and Audi was faster with a 6% power drop with the same car in testing in late '09/early '10 with the same basic R15 than they were that March. Audi and Peugeot showed time and time again that no matter how much the ACO tried to ratchet the diesels or help out the gasoline/privateer contingent, they still went even faster than previously if anything, and I wouldn't expect anything different this time around. |
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1 Mar 2012, 14:56 (Ref:3033582) | #2736 | |||
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1 Mar 2012, 15:42 (Ref:3033599) | #2737 | ||
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- Dunlop Chicane - Esses - Tertre Rouge (slightly) - Mulsanne Chicane 1 - Mulsanne Chicane 2 - Mulsanne Corner - Indianapolis - Arnage - Porsche Curves (two braking zones) - Ford Chicane I don't know if it makes sense to count the Porsche curves and Indianapolis/Arnage separately, because they aren't on the power for long between the braking zones. |
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1 Mar 2012, 15:53 (Ref:3033602) | #2738 | ||
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Ok I tried to layover the 2 audi r18 photos to see where there are any differences. The images don't really match up perfectly but enough to see where the 2 cars differ.
First thing I notice is the lower wing on the Hybrid. I think this is the low downforce setup for le mans and maybe Spa? The second this is the front fenders on the new car are less round. They have more of a blunt edge to them. I probably have missed a couple of things so here's the image. |
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1 Mar 2012, 16:06 (Ref:3033605) | #2739 | ||
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#3 Audi is a 2011 spec car that will run Sebring--remember in the release, the only notable difference between the e-Tron and the Ultra is the presence or not of the hybrid system.
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1 Mar 2012, 16:22 (Ref:3033609) | #2740 | ||
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1 Mar 2012, 19:11 (Ref:3033660) | #2741 | |
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The Sebring R18's will be get weight penalty...Combine that with the new HPD which is reportedly on point and suddenly you have the makings of an upset.
Also the Toyota isnt using the same engine as the rebellion. So even with the same restrictors the new Toyota engine is supposed to be more powerful, more torque, better driveability...Combine that with cut back to diesel power and suddenly it looks like a very different battle at Le Mans. |
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1 Mar 2012, 20:47 (Ref:3033706) | #2742 | |
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If it stays dry for most of LeMans, Toyota's rear drive hybrid might give them the torque to make up for the advantage of a diesel? And the capacitor storage compared to the flywheel, I calculated 67hp for 10seconds from 500kilojoules... between each braking zone. How about the flywheel?
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1 Mar 2012, 22:37 (Ref:3033772) | #2743 | |||
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Anyway, the front axle motors of the R18 generate 2 x 75 kW = 150 kW ~= 200 hp. 500 kJ of recovered kinetic energy will be released in 3.33 seconds. |
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1 Mar 2012, 22:55 (Ref:3033786) | #2744 | ||
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Marketing bull in racing? Unpossible! |
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1 Mar 2012, 22:59 (Ref:3033788) | #2745 | |
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1 Mar 2012, 23:05 (Ref:3033791) | #2746 | |
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http://www.dailysportscar.com/viewAr...39A784A2F4EC73 has interviews with Oliver Jarvis, Marcel Fässler, Timo Bernhard, Marco Bonanomi and Romain Dumas. Great stuff!
Some interesting facts:
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1 Mar 2012, 23:14 (Ref:3033800) | #2747 | |||
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Personally i would have taken in new drivers instead. |
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1 Mar 2012, 23:17 (Ref:3033801) | #2748 | |||
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2 Mar 2012, 00:28 (Ref:3033819) | #2749 | ||
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2 Mar 2012, 00:32 (Ref:3033822) | #2750 | |
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sure i used you same logic, but the batteries charge after a brake and i guess huge brake = huge charge, so is more probable that kers will activate after those slow points
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