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7 Aug 2010, 09:30 (Ref:2740858) | #276 | ||||
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I think my list above confuses two cars - the '86 Grice car (Grice, O'Brien, Amhren, ??? (Mr 240RS NW Saloons), Chris Maries, Phil Rose, ?Ric Wood?) with whatever became the "Senator" in Thundersaloons (GMDS, Stevens, Phillips, Walters, ???, back to Oz). Apologies for that - I must learnt to proof-read! Al, if you read this - can you remember when (years) Pete Barnes had the Commodore? And can anyone in the know tell whether it was HDT or Roadways from the photos on page 17? |
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8 Aug 2010, 18:42 (Ref:2741457) | #277 | |||
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I'm sure it was the VK in question? Can anyone check local programmes from the early 90's? |
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8 Aug 2010, 21:41 (Ref:2741603) | #278 | ||
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8 Aug 2010, 23:08 (Ref:2741641) | #279 | ||
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Is that from looking at the car? It seems to add up that it is the ex-Grice car, gone from Phil Rose to Pete Barnes, then to Ric Wood. Nearly all of the period programmes I have are from Brands; I'd dearly love to get my hands on Thundersaloon info (programmes, results sheets) from any other circuit!
To throw in something controversial (and stand well back) from the end of '93 - "Holden Commodore ex-Peter Brock. James Hardy 1000 winning car. Winner of the Thundersaloon Championship 3 times." The number given is for a business that entered the Senator in '92 Thundersaloons. I wonder if anyone has got in touch with them to ask why they thought it was the winning car? |
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8 Aug 2010, 23:12 (Ref:2741642) | #280 | |||
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8 Aug 2010, 23:25 (Ref:2741648) | #281 | |||
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Last edited by Camaroz; 8 Aug 2010 at 23:31. Reason: typo |
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8 Aug 2010, 23:27 (Ref:2741649) | #282 | ||
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To GTRMagic - The '84 car, discussed here -
http://tentenths.com/forum/showpost....&postcount=210 To Camaroz - that's really confusing. It could have worked like that, although I've found no mention in '92 or '93 of Ric Wood racing it. As far as I can make out Chris Maries last had it in '91. Someone who worked on it said this - http://tentenths.com/forum/showpost....&postcount=114 At least we can reckon on it being the same car, whoever owned it whenever! Last edited by Tim Wilkinson; 8 Aug 2010 at 23:34. |
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9 Aug 2010, 13:21 (Ref:2741888) | #283 | ||
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9 Aug 2010, 20:37 (Ref:2742125) | #284 | |
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French VK.
I don`t want to add more confusion, but about 7-8 years ago I bought a VK Commodore that had been built in Germany by Opel for Guy Frequelin to drive in the French Super Tourisme series. At the time I was trying to find out where it came from originally. As it was a factory Opel programme (apparently because they thought they should be doing something....) I spoke with Tony Fall about it. He told me the body was sourced from the factory in Germany & it was built new by Opel. I was never convinced about this as it was a RHD VK shell which I assumed was only built for the Australian market. Seems to me it must have either been a new shell sent over from Australia, or possibly a previously used car / body which would have to have come from Australia.
My interest has faded a little as the car is now back in Australia, but maybe interesting somehow? Alex |
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9 Aug 2010, 21:34 (Ref:2742159) | #285 | |||
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9 Aug 2010, 22:02 (Ref:2742174) | #286 | |||
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It came second! CCC |
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10 Aug 2010, 07:18 (Ref:2742302) | #287 | |
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French VK
Hi Camaroz,
OK that makes more sense. At the time I contacted various Holden related people in Australia, but nobody could tell me anything about it, or the numbers on it. Obviously I was not asking the right people. Alex. |
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11 Aug 2010, 07:29 (Ref:2742908) | #288 | ||
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Camaroz - you seem to be well up on things, so can I get your reaction to my earlier post #245.
If Mort Brown could not be definitive of which car was which, how can anyone be certain. One thing is clear, there was an awful lot of chassis plate engineering going on at the time and as Mort said, probably only PB knows which car is which. And I may have missed the post which clarified this point but weren't the cars that came first and second in '84 carrying race numbers 24(1st) and 25(2nd)? |
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11 Aug 2010, 08:15 (Ref:2742927) | #289 | |||
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19 Aug 2010, 11:57 (Ref:2747097) | #290 | ||
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Peter Brock and Larry Perkins even attended the 'handing over' ceremony of their winning #05 to the Bathurst Museum in Bathurst week '85.... |
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19 Sep 2010, 06:04 (Ref:2761423) | #291 | ||
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has been proven, and know one has given me proof against it. |
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19 Sep 2010, 07:00 (Ref:2761434) | #292 | ||
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11 Jul 2011, 11:41 (Ref:2925032) | #293 | |
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Hi, sorry to ressurrect this old thread to mooch off of you guys, but does anyone have a magazine scan that was flowing around of an article about the Holden Commodore campaign in Europe back in the 80´s where it talks about how it all went south because of the "energy polarizer" thingy?
Thanks |
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6 Sep 2011, 09:13 (Ref:2951557) | #294 | |||
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Interesting article in the current Australian Muscle Car magazine this month (Issue #57), focused on the 1986 Bathurst winning Grice/Bailey Chickadee VK Commodore...
They interview Mr Small, builder of 9 Group 'A' spec Holden Commodores from his Roadways equipe... Quote:
The story talks to updating the RWGPA3 chassis as more things were learned in Europe, in suspension, in engine, in rear axle ratios and components.. all of which also ended up in a similar spec on Mr Bailey's RWGPA5 customer car, that went onto win Bathurst 1986... |
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6 Sep 2011, 12:41 (Ref:2951650) | #295 | |
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That settles that one then!
...but it does leave a couple of questions- First, there have been a few mentions in the thread of TWR having at least one VK as a test hack as part of the preparation for the 1987 season, before the VLs were ready to not show up for the WTCC... There was that photo of a white VK with a TWR sunstrip in Autosport shortly before the solitary Nurburgring WTCC appearance by the VL. So where did this white car come from? Secondly, did we ever clear up what happened to the pair of VKs that Brock used in his 1986 ETCC appearances- think it was suggested earlier in the thread that Brock's regular ATCC car was shipped over to be the second car at Spa, but did both cars then go back to Australia? We know that one was still in Europe to appear as the GM DealerSport entry for Cleland/Woodman at the TT, http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j1...ADD/xv5775.jpg and was being advertised for sale in Autosport by mid-October.Did it sell, and if so, where to? |
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6 Sep 2011, 13:00 (Ref:2951658) | #296 | |||
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Last edited by chunterer; 6 Sep 2011 at 21:09. |
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6 Sep 2011, 17:43 (Ref:2951764) | #297 | |
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Could be....To the best of my knowledge, there were only three Group A VK Commodores seen in Europe in 1986- Grice's car (accounted for- as we know it became Mike O'Brien's BTCC car) and the two Brock cars-
Brock brought one to Europe at the beginning of the season for the ETC races, and a second, (which it's suggested earlier in the thread was Brock's regular ATCC car), which came over as a second car for Spa- Brock's ETC campaign ended after Spa, and I'm guessing one car went home to Australia in time for Sandown and Bathurst, while the other stayed on to do the TT as the GMDS car, and be advertised for sale in Autosport in October. I'm guessing it was still in Europe, as the contact numbers given in the Autosport ad were for Bill Cleland and Tony Fall, rather than anyone at HDT. Other than TWR, there were only a couple of VL Commodores raced in Europe in '87- the Belgian/Dutch Serge Power and Jeroen Hin/Playboy cars, so if the '86 HDT VK was sold on in Europe, then I guess it was either converted to a VL and became one of these, or was sold to TWR as a test hack...Unless TWR built a test VK in-house for some reason....? |
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7 Sep 2011, 11:08 (Ref:2952124) | #298 | ||
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Don't forget the Mike O'Brien VK and the Mike O'Brien VL were two different cars; the former the Roadways built car, the latter appeared to be a HDT VK upgraded to VL spec. I think we covered this somewhere earlier in this thread.
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7 Sep 2011, 12:04 (Ref:2952167) | #299 | ||
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So is the chain of events for this car now '1986 Brock European camapign > 1986 GMDS car at the TT > 1986/7 TWR VK test hack > 1988 converted to VL for ADR/O'Brien' ...or is there another VK that we've somehow missed? I'll try and dig out the Autosport piece with the pic later and take another look at it |
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7 Sep 2011, 13:47 (Ref:2952222) | #300 | |
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The other question that comes to mind involves the VLs seen in Europe in 1987. I'll leave out of the equation the two Australian cars (Moffatt's Rothmans car in the early WTCC rounds and Brock's Spa appearance) plus TWR's solitary outing at the Nurburgring WTCC race, and concentrate on the other two European VLs- the Serge Power pair of Michel Delcourt and Jeroen Hin.
Looking at the race results posted on Frank de Jong's site, Hin's 'Playboy'-sponsored car seems to have debuted at the Zolder ETCC race in June, then mainly appeared in the Dutch series, apparently making it's Dutch debut the very same weekend, racing at Zolder on the Sunday and Zandvoort on the Monday! (presumably a public holiday in Holland). It also appeared at Spa, and was leased by Vic Covey & Andrew Jeffrey for the TT: http://s271.photobucket.com/albums/j...06SSTT-102.jpg http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc...-08-02-034.jpg The Delcourt/Guyaux car appears to have first appeared at the Nurburgring WTCC race, then Spa and Silverstone. Australian Graham Moore joined them for Spa, (with Delcourt going on to co-drive Moore's VK at Bathurst, as he had in 1986) and Jerry Mahony for the TT. http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc...-08-02-024.jpg http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc...-09-06-023.jpg Where did these cars originate- it was suggested earlier in the thread that they were bought as completed cars (IIRC Serge Power were mainly engine builders?), rather than built up by the team(s) but weren't sourced from Australia. Could the Delcourt-Moore link have had any significance? It could at least account for Delcourt choosing to go with the Australian car over any of the European options (he'd also been one of Grice's various European co-drivers in 1986), but did Serge Power & Delcourt perhaps source parts and bodyshells, if not complete cars, from Australia via Moore (Who built Moore's VK incidentally?) Additionally, an 'Elkron France' Commodore appeared at the Nogaro ETC race late-season for Jarier/Barlesi. The earliest mention I can find so far of a French Group A Commodore are appearances by Jarier, sharing a car with either Jean-Pierre Jabouille or Joel Gouhier in three French Group A rounds in May/June at Monthlery, Paul Ricard and Rouen, listed as a Serge Power entry. Is this one of the Delcourt/Hin pair, or was there a third Commodore? The Elkron car at Nogaro probably wasn't the Hin/Playboy car, as Hin was racing in the Dutch series at Zandvoort the same day |
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alan docking racing, btcc, etcc, group a, holden commodore, mike o brien |
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