ERC 2013

[tbtstt]

Originally Posted by schanche

I can't really see how it could make things worse?

My concern is that we are already seeing a reduction in grid numbers due to ERC drivers who can't afford to run the championship, if we take out those drivers with the funding to do the "new" ERC, how many does that leave for the Challenge? I know there are differences in the circumstances, but look what happened when we had two series in the UK. The sport was weakened through the division.

Still, if the Challenge is going to present a cheaper Championship option then hopefully those drivers with a lesser budget can continue to compete and, as you say, if the "new" ERC intends to focus solely on the Supercars then that leaves the other classes for the Challenge!

As it stands I personally don't think we have enough information to judge either way yet. We (or at least I ) don't know what format the "ERC" is going to take next year: is it going to be run purely on established circuits or are they going to shift to alternate temporary tracks a la the GRC?

Also - and it seems unlikely because of the two different marketing groups involved - but is there any intention to combine the GRC and ERC events in 2013 and beyond?...

[rallyloverke]

So far, the only thing we know for sure : IMG is the promotor for the next 10 years. That's it.

All the rest are speculations. But i can't imagine the people like Hansen, ... are supporting a rallycross-plan that would "destroy" Rallycross. Thing's can level up and that's a good thing. But we didn't see any details yet, so let's wait before deciding to start talking about another European championship. I think that is not a good idea to split things now : we had about 22 supercars on the entry list at Buxtehude : splitting it : 6 in the IMG-format and 15/16 in the other championship??? A good thing : we saw a nice field of Touringcars and for sure a great amount of cars in Super1600. So i hope every organiser sees they are important too ...

[tbtstt]

Originally Posted by rallyloverke

But i can't imagine the people like Hansen, ... are supporting a rallycross-plan that would "destroy" Rallycross.

This is one of the things that is giving me hope that things may not be as bad as we fear: I'm hoping Hansen's endorsement is a positive sign*.



* But this wouldn't be the first time I've been accused of being overly optimistic!

[AndyS]

Originally Posted by tbtstt

My concern is that we are already seeing a reduction in grid numbers due to ERC drivers who can't afford to run the championship, if we take out those drivers with the funding to do the "new" ERC, how many does that leave for the Challenge?

Precisely my thoughts, in better financial times there would have been enough Supercar drivers to go round but I'm not so sure now. If IMG aren't interested in the other divisions they should be okay, but Supercar does look like it would be reliant on local/national drivers competiting at their home rounds to boost numbers.

[tbtstt]

New issue of Rallycross World (Issue 103) out today. I won't reproduce the whole thing here, but the leading article (pages 4 and 5) concerns the ERC next year and includes the following information:

Originally Posted by Rallycross World Issue 103

The FIA Rallycross Championship events will continue to be run over two days and will feature all three current classes, there will be racing for the Super1600, TouringCar and Supercar drivers on both days of the events, TouringCar and Super1600 will also feature in TV coverage of the events.

Originally Posted by Rallycross World Issue 103

...will be introduced for an entry of up to 25 Supercars which will comprise a mix of permanent drivers, wildcard entries and national qualifiers.

Originally Posted by Rallycross World Issue 103

Super1600 and TouringCar will have a similar system but the entry will remain more open with no requirement for drivers to commit to race in every championship event.

And from the Diary (Page 17)

Originally Posted by Rallycross World Issue 103

There will not be a FIA Rallycross Challenge in 2013

I daresay we're still a long way from a full picture, but the article definately puts some pieces of the puzzle in place.

[USRallycross]

I think Tim makes some really good points in his editorial as well as the background to the mysterious 2013 FIA Rallycross Challenge.....

Well worth clicking on and reading

It is going to be an interesting off-season as IMG announce drivers; GRC makes changes and we see where everyone falls. We certainly aren't in for a boring winter.

Mark

[chasing cars]

I think it should be remembered that the journalist in question has been working with IMG and I even read now working for IMG so naturally his views, opinions etc are going to be very biased. His comments about some wanting to stay a big fish in a small pond and that the challenge will not happen is total arrogance from a man who stands to make alot of money if this succeeds and to try and stop any alternatives for drivers without mega budgets and energy drink sponsors will simply have the effect of turning more people against this. TW perhaps isnt so good with the pr stuff yet. The article in issue 103 is basically a reprint of what they announced in August (see my post on 14 Sept) so hardly news there.

As has been said many questions are still left unanswered, the new proposed challenge seems to lack any substance at the moment but then many said that about the the new ERC a few months ago.

[chunder]

Agreed cars, I dont trust any of this stuff and will wait and see if this actually happens, all seems a bit pie in the sky really, there is little money around and in all seriousness rallycross is not in the best of health in a lot of countries, if you want tricksters and wannabes in your championship fair enough, but it isnt going to do anything at all for rallycross nationally either aspirationally or as a grooming thing

And as for Kenny, well he is a legend but that Junior thing is a total waste of time! Surely you can do better than that

[rallycrossnl]

Some more details are becoming more clear now. ERC24 quotes Jan Mochan of the Czech Sosnova track "But the organisers entry fee of €64,000 to IMG, of which 50% is due by the end of coming January, is not acceptable for us.”

With (from what I did understand till now) the drivers paying direct to IMG etc, where dos that kind of money come from? Right now I mean. When (and if) the IMG circus takes off sponsors might be interested to invest, but upfront might be tricky I think.

And yeah, the fans need to have access to the pits. I don't understand why IMG wants them only on the outside of the tracks.

[sashchris]

It is indeed quite clear that rallycross world cannot be taken seriously as a credible outlet for rallycross information whilst it is so blatantly being used as nothing more than a mouthpiece for IMG

[rallyloverke]

I don't think some new stuff would be bad. (Good) promotion is good.

But some things make you thinking :

64000 euros? Which circuit can afford that? Considering most of the circuit also have to invest to upgrade their accomodation. Because that is also what (some) drivers would like to change.

And leaving the spectators far away from the drivers. This is one of the things that make rallycross so special comparing to other sports : you can speak with your idol, shake hands ...

[AndyS]

IMG really need to get some of the details out in the public domain, because from what I can gather nobody seems to know what the hell is going on. The longer they leave it the more damage it'll do and the harder it will be for tracks, drivers etc to plan for next year. Its all very well those in the know hinting at this and that (including some on here) but it just serves to fuel too much speculation whether that be correct or not.

[rallyloverke]

Originally Posted by AndyS

IMG really need to get some of the details out in the public domain, because from what I can gather nobody seems to know what the hell is going on. The longer they leave it the more damage it'll do and the harder it will be for tracks, drivers etc to plan for next year. Its all very well those in the know hinting at this and that (including some on here) but it just serves to fuel too much speculation whether that be correct or not.

Indeed. You are right about that. Who says everyting mentioned in het latest erc24 article about the race at Sosnova are the correct details for now?
So far it is like a puzzle and assuming ... We try to find the correct details before judging because "assumption is the mother of all ***-ups"

[rx-guru]

Originally Posted by chasing cars

... but then many said that about the new ERC a few months ago.

[chunder]

To be frank, it all stinks a little bit of what happened in the UK a few years ago, and the loser will inevoitably be rallycross on a European level as people like IMG come and go, take the money and run.

I hope not, but some of the noises frmo this Czech guy are really rather pathetic if they are true

[FIRE]

Tracks having to pay a lot more to have an ERC round isn't a surprise. Pay more, less control.


The dead silence from the drivers is still surprising me.

[rx-guru]

Originally Posted by FIRE

The dead silence from the drivers is still surprising me.

Why? Many signed a 'Letter of Intent'...

[rallycrossnl]

Originally Posted by FIRE

Tracks having to pay a lot more to have an ERC round isn't a surprise.g

Yeah, ok, but in your cashbook of 2012 there needs to be a profit of at least 64.000 euro to go out and play with IMG. Of course this fee includes IMG providing (I'm guessing) price-money and trophies, personel (in the form of race director etc), perhaps timekeeping, I don't know, depends on what 'full controle' means. A part of that money comes back/dosn't have to be spent on the event day it self. So not all of that quoted 64.000 euro is 'lost'.
Still, Tracks/clubs will need very deep pockets the first year.

[ERC]

Originally Posted by rallycrossnl

Yeah, ok, but in your cashbook of 2012 there needs to be a profit of at least 64.000 euro to go out and play with IMG. Of course this fee includes IMG providing (I'm guessing) price-money and trophies, personel (in the form of race director etc), perhaps timekeeping, I don't know, depends on what 'full controle' means. A part of that money comes back/dosn't have to be spent on the event day it self. So not all of that quoted 64.000 euro is 'lost'.
Still, Tracks/clubs will need very deep pockets the first year.

VERY deep! On top of the 64K fee there is a lot of other investments the organisers must do after what I have understood....

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by rx-guru

Why? Many signed a 'Letter of Intent'...

Well I am just surprised there are almost zero reactions (positive or negative).

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by rallycrossnl

Yeah, ok, but in your cashbook of 2012 there needs to be a profit of at least 64.000 euro to go out and play with IMG. Of course this fee includes IMG providing (I'm guessing) price-money and trophies, personel (in the form of race director etc), perhaps timekeeping, I don't know, depends on what 'full controle' means. A part of that money comes back/dosn't have to be spent on the event day it self. So not all of that quoted 64.000 euro is 'lost'.
Still, Tracks/clubs will need very deep pockets the first year.

With IMG having a 10 year deal maybe they should be less "greedy" in the first year. First convince the tracks. If their promotion works tracks will get more spectactors and sponsors and I am sure than tracks are willing and able to pay more.

[chunder]

OK, you have to look at this a certain way if you run a track.

There are only a few events that can attract crowds of 15'000 plus these days, namely France, Sweden, perhaps Norway. And maybe Belgium/Holland?

So those events might be able to make this pay when you look at camping, food, bar takings.

But the smaller tracks are going to struggle, the Dorans are obviously bankrolling Lydden as they can't possible get enough people in to cover the majotiry of that fee, and other tracks like Germany, Portugal, Austria surely dont get enough spectator income to cover it.

And I am certain that I will not attend tracks where I cant go in the pits!! But I reckon that is that guy being a bit huffy, I cant see that happening!

It is going to be interesting to see who commits, if they want show events like one offs in Spain, USA, Germany then fair enough, but that isnt really a championship, it is more of a travelling circus, and a lot of teams wont be able to afford it unless they are getting help with travel costs

[paul1982]

Only Sweden and France can make 15.000 + at the moment.
Norway came the last two years around the 5.000 ( you think there will be more but after the good years of schanche and lyngasbane it goes down)
I tought lousada attracts more then 15.000 spectators. For the rest you must think between 8.000 - 12.000 max.

But i think that the most organisations are amateurs/privateers.
Were the hell can the take €64.000 ??

[chasing cars]

Its quite possible that IMG are deliberately pricing out some of the circuits. USRallycross has said here in the past that one of the drawbacks of the ERC is the lack of corporate facilities at the circuits to attract big sponsors. For marketing people like IMG this would be far more important to them than the track itself and if they have to go to other or non rallycross tracks then so be it as long as they can pay the extortionate amounts being asked, which with corporate money they would far more likely be able to do.

[chunder]

Lol, they dont seem to understand that rallycross is about as corporate as deckchair racing!

So totally arrogant and selfish, the only place where you might get decent facilities like that, that you could run a track ay at all in the UK would be somewhere like Brands and that aint ever happening. Lydden is a dump (for that kind of thing) and Croft, Pembrey and Knockhill are too.

I have only ever been to Valkenswaard abroad and that doesnt have anything like that, and I cant imagine many other places do, so it seems to me if that is any kind of reason they want purpose built tracks built to their specs, and there arent any.

Naff off back where you came is my answer!