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5 Jan 2012, 23:37 (Ref:3007947) | #276 | |||
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Also as well as the whole percentage of females/males explanation I think that big companies and sponsorship deals are too scared or weary to invest all their money into a woman and support them to the top. As has been proven in this very thread that there are some males out there who still have a sexist opinion on females in motorsport etc. If the deal doesn't go to plan and the female does not prove herself then they are just in for the "I told you so" remark, which would make them seem foolish. |
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6 Jan 2012, 00:49 (Ref:3007978) | #277 | |||
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6 Jan 2012, 01:44 (Ref:3007987) | #278 | ||
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With sponsorship in terms of "supporting someone to the top", there isn't much in the way of promotional benefits out there at the lower levels of motorsport, so for most large companies there just isn't the benefit to sponsor someone as it isn't worthwhile. Often people think companies should be just happy to have their name on a race car or that they just have tons of money to spend on people's hobbies. We have to remember all these private companies have a core business to focus on, are not in the business of motor racing and they probably have a tightly controlled and thought out marketing plan and budget. These companies have no idea who will make it to the top or not, but they are probably wise enough to see that not many make it to the top at all. And what is in it for them? What promotional benefits are they going to realize? There has to be some kind of business plan for the sponsor to make money, regardless of how the driver performs or not. I really don't think most companies would care about whether a driver is a woman or a man. If they do take a sponsorship proposal under consideration, it will be about whether there is a workable business plan to realize some significant benefit from their expenditure. With regards to sexism or discrimination, that's never going away and probably the more social engineering and political correctness that goes on, the more some people are going to push back against it. People are always going to have their opinion. The big failure of feminism was to try to force themselves on a mans world, when they are not men and never will be. Men and women are built differently, have different brain chemistry, think differently, socialize differently, see the world differently. I'm glad those differences exist because the world would be a boring place otherwise. Embrace the differences and accent your strengths. The most successful women drivers I know and I know a few, are ones that are feminine and that don't try to be something they are not(a man). They go about their business with a positive attitude, carry themselves and present themselves with class, act in a professional manner and focus on getting good results. The ones that carry around this sourpuss snarling baggage of "blah I didn't succeed because everyone is sexist and they hate women and waaaa...,", those ladies don't do well with people, because no one wants to deal with all that heavy baggage and debbie downer everyone is out to get me attitude. |
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6 Jan 2012, 02:45 (Ref:3007996) | #279 | ||
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the only problem with not admitting there's an issue with attitudes is that then other people think they don't exist. they do. and always will do unless those attitudes are called out for what they are. which is negative and symptomatic of a bad attitude to life and the workplace. |
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6 Jan 2012, 04:13 (Ref:3008006) | #280 | ||
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However on the opposite end of the spectrum, there have been a lot of very supportive, helpful people over the years and the reason I have been able to have the life I do is because people recommended me or took a chance on me. So have big filters on your ears, do what you need to do and understand not everyone is going to like you, support you or say nice things to you. And especially as it regards to women drivers, do what you enjoy doing and what makes you happy. Look at unjustified criticism and nasty comments as a big bonus, because it highlights the people you don't want to associate with. Take justified and well meant criticism as having a benefit towards you improving and moving forward with what you want to do. Lastly, have the wisdom to know the difference between the two. |
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6 Jan 2012, 10:23 (Ref:3008071) | #281 | ||
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So, having always thought this topic was overrated "Cos chicks just don't like racin'". Reading others opinions as to why girls/women aren't involved more due to a sexist nature that is apparent in motorsport that is prejudiced against females (That is the theme I'm picking up, anyway). I Thought I'd apply, what I'd think, would be a common opinion of a male driver with the record of known female competitors.
Firstly, Leanne Tander. If a guy had won a single fford race/round and finished in the top 5, once, came second overall a couple of times in Gold Star, maybe should've won one of them, with a handful of wins, what would/we I think of them? We'd think they're OK, competent, nothing special, worthy of the odd drive at Bathurst with a small team maybe. Nothing to lose your mind over and wonder "What may've been?" This would be the consensus amongst those aware of Leanne? So, I'm not sure if she is a victim of prejudice...in fact, she isn't. Secondly, Danica Patrick. Had they been a guy shameless enough to take advantage of motorsport and develop a driving career in based on superficiality, then, I can't begin to think of the vitriol he would receive! Danica has got off lightly, prejudice has worked in her favour. Btw, if mountainstar is right, Danica hadn't won a race til that sham in Japan, well, if there wasn't already a low enough opinion of the IRL, but that's pathetic! What an embarrassment that she even threatened to win Indy! Truly, the lowest point in the 500's history, this last decade. Does anybody disagree? Just remember "Chicks just don't like racin'" |
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6 Jan 2012, 15:26 (Ref:3008195) | #282 | |
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i disagree, but purely on a "that's an extreme viewpoint" basis. if that's an opinion that people (or a person) has then, well, ok.
personally, i'm not a danica fan, but i respect her for making her way to where she has. when drivers who have a sizeable amount of backing, i can only rationalise it on the basis that there's a car running there that likely wouldn't have been running without that money. again, going back to the father-funded son comparison really - a car is a car, regardless of who's driving it. it's only when you come to f1 where there's more drivers than available seats that you begin to have a moral question i suppose. it's all very well saying you have to put up with the attitudes in the workplace that you experience, cause it's true. to an extent. so long as you have the right working relationship and respect from your mechanic, engineer and team manager the others can take a flying leap. that goes for any gender. but if you're getting an unprofessional and/or abusive attitude from anyone, you take it to your manager, as you would do in any situation. in the end, as a driver, you're the one paying the money and paying their wages. anyone still giving you grief in that context deserves to be looking elsewhere for a job. a victim attitude will never help you get the most from yourself or the car, or the job. but just saying 'man up' (gender pun not intended) isn't the whole solution. for the record i know plenty of female engineering students, both current, graduated and employed in f1 scenarios. and i've met one or two very good female mechanics too. chicks *do* like racing |
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6 Jan 2012, 23:39 (Ref:3008428) | #283 | ||
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"You can get lucky and win one championship but not two ..." Jamie Whincup. I wonder which person with the initials RK he was referring to. |
7 Jan 2012, 00:01 (Ref:3008436) | #284 | |
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Firstly, the fact that we are talking about Leanne, just shows how desperate you are for information, she debuted in a v8 11 years ago, we have had no one since
if it helps deeks, these drivers have won the championship ingall lowndes bright garth, will jame Reynolds Rick kelly has a goldstar championship caruso won the wonj ust f3 championship as did reindler coultard won nz formula ford championship Winterbottom won the kartstars championship courtney won the british formula ford championship many of those drivers saw the championship as a steeping stone and moved up to the next level soon after this Last edited by peckstar; 7 Jan 2012 at 00:10. |
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7 Jan 2012, 01:25 (Ref:3008456) | #285 | ||
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Go woke, Go broke… Here’s hoping a random universe works out in your favour… The meaning of life… ENJOYING THE PASSAGE OF TIME! #CANCERSUCKS |
7 Jan 2012, 02:22 (Ref:3008471) | #286 | ||
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I think she got a fair crack, including a run in Konica with Garry Rogers IRC, before choosing to finish her studies and start a career in accounting. And I think she did well working her way back in before choosing to start a family. I'm having a hard time here understanding why she was supposed to be handled 3 championships and a prime ride at 888 because she was a woman? If 3rd in the Australian Formula Ford series guaranteed a 20 year pro career, I would think there are a lot of people out there that should be hacked off. |
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7 Jan 2012, 02:43 (Ref:3008476) | #287 | |
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mountainstar to be fair, she finished 2nd , twice, in the Australian drivers championship.
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7 Jan 2012, 03:29 (Ref:3008482) | #288 | |||
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However in my opinion Leanne would hose Danica off the track if given the same equipment, but we probably will never see it, Danica is extremely average on road courses and just average on ovals. @ peckstar, I think "Frosty" also won his Formula Ford season which resulted from his "Karstars" win and then went on to win the Konica developement series as well the next year |
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7 Jan 2012, 03:32 (Ref:3008484) | #289 | ||
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"You can get lucky and win one championship but not two ..." Jamie Whincup. I wonder which person with the initials RK he was referring to. |
7 Jan 2012, 03:33 (Ref:3008485) | #290 | |
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I'm just going off of what deeks presented as their factual argument. I'm aware of her runs in F3. But it's further evidence of the vast male australian motorsport conspiracy against women drivers.
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7 Jan 2012, 03:51 (Ref:3008489) | #291 | ||
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7 Jan 2012, 10:09 (Ref:3008555) | #292 | |||||
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Females, naturally, like more creative and/or social pastimes, as you know, after all, look at your username. I don't mean to make you feel bad, make fun of you or come across as smarta***. I'm confident that "bella" isn't latin for "fastfemme", "quickchick" or "dangerouscurves". Am I right? Typically, chicks think racing is "Boring", "Just cars going round in circles". What would they know? Quote:
Secondly, the guys who have a comparable record, that have a fulltime V8 drive, for however many years but are not the known guns, are thought of as losers as well! I mean, for instance, there was no logical reason for Garry Rogers to take on Holdsworth, I don't think much of either of them. Just because a pair of chumps, like the Kelly brothers, make their way up. I s this a justification for Leanne to? The point I'm making is that Leanne's record, even if a guy produced those exact results, doesn't automatically warrant a "You've just got to take him/her!" full-time drive. She didn't move me in any way to think she did, the same way, I suspect, you couldn't care less about Troy Dunstan, Troy Hunt, Stephen White, Gavin Monaghan, Paul Stokell, Adam Macrow or similar not forging a full-time, professional careers. I myself, without knowing them closely, wondered most about Stephen White and Paul Stokell. |
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8 Jan 2012, 02:31 (Ref:3008822) | #293 | ||
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I didn't investigate her treammantes, but consider that some rival teams had two prorer drivers. If she won many races, then she had to beat their teammates too.
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8 Jan 2012, 04:31 (Ref:3008840) | #294 | ||
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Couple of things to consider.
Did Leanne in fact prove she was smarter than the boys by realising that learning how to control the finances of the family enterprise was the best long term move? Done a quick crawl through this, and maybe missed it, but can't see a mention of Jutta Klienschmidt, a winner in what would seem to be the toughest motor sport event in the world. Roll on fellas. I am willing to admit that over a long distance I will get there about one tenth of one percent quicker than my missus and stagger from behind the wheel in a spent heap. She will leap out all bright and shiny having used less fuel, less tyre wear or brakes and generally looked after the machinery. Not all women are the same, but the good ones really can bring a level of preservation of the vehicle going quick over a long distance that few men can emulate. By the way, ask a mine manager who he would rather have driving dump trucks. |
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8 Jan 2012, 18:34 (Ref:3009078) | #295 | |||
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just because most of the women *you* see in motorsport are paid to wear lycra, hold umbrellas and pose for photos doesn't mean there's not hundreds of them sat in the grandstands, and not just to keep their partners company. your suggestion that women prefer more creative pasttimes... do you think cars are designed by witchcraft? what isn't creative about rebuilding a car or engineering a solution to make it go faster? your perception is outdated and your insistence that everyone else is wrong is even more outdated. in europe you'll find an awful lot of women showing men up in traditionally male-dominated industries because *finally* the stereotype driven nonsense like the drivel you spout is irrelevant. maybe australian culture is a decade or so behind us, maybe it's not your fault your view is outdated. and to add to oldtony's very valid mention of the awesome jutta klienschmidt, if you look in detail at dakar, particularly in the 80s when it was very serious business there's a surprising number of women who drove and navigated. they're my heroes. what an epic, incredible adventure. all the more shame we don't get to hear their stories more often. that was the opinion of the guy i learnt to drive and passed my truck licence with too |
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8 Jan 2012, 19:57 (Ref:3009105) | #296 | ||
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Nobody is denying that women are not capable drivers. I've heard similar comments about women's superior capabilities in looking after trucks and machinery. But, like other sports, football (most codes), cricket, tennis, golf etc, they play the game amongst themselves very competitively, but can't cut it against the guys and never will, due to the reasons already discussed. After all is said and done, and the excuses run out, there still ain't one woman in motorsport history and none on the radar at the moment, that can be said to be a household name who is won anything of significance competing against the guys. I love watching top notch women's sport, beach volleyball especially.
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8 Jan 2012, 20:48 (Ref:3009122) | #297 | |
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come on porche, surely Danica is as good as a household name , at least in the USA, as anyone in Indycar.
and she has won a race and finished in the top 5 of the championship. too me that suggest she meets your criteria, But she will never win the champpionship, shes not quite good enough, and there currently no one else racing in the top levels who will |
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9 Jan 2012, 01:37 (Ref:3009220) | #298 | ||
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9 Jan 2012, 04:55 (Ref:3009236) | #299 | |||||
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I'm not as familiar with Jutta, I do know she was a Dakar winner, however, I do get the impression she is a respected competitor and has as high a profile as most male Dakar winners do (not very high at all). Regarding driving dump trucks, as well as you or any other woman may drive them, a key factor that makes driving them insignificant is that you don't have to drive them quickly or race them. |
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9 Jan 2012, 06:43 (Ref:3009247) | #300 | ||
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Dakar may not have a very high profile in Australia but I would suggest that in most parts of the non-Anglo world it is around the same status as an F1 GP win. Certainly bigger than IRL, WTCC etc and almost on a par with Monaco, Indy or Le Mans.
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