Where to for Caterham? - Page 12

davyboy · 23 Sep 2014, 10:14 (Ref:3456836)

This explains Bernie's 3-car team comments a few weeks ago. He's obviously aware that they're sinking... and I wouldn't be surprised if they're the only ones.

nobster · 23 Sep 2014, 12:10 (Ref:3456868)

They have a few races to go this season, if this goes on then they might not make it till the end...

JeremySmith · 26 Sep 2014, 00:39 (Ref:3457703)

Quote:

Originally Posted by davyboy

This explains Bernie's 3-car team comments a few weeks ago. He's obviously aware that they're sinking... and I wouldn't be surprised if they're the only ones.

What a complete tit he is...

**GTRMagic** · 26 Sep 2014, 04:46 (Ref:3457731)

Maybe the Caterhamians could take a leaf out of Mr Brabham's book, and try and crowdfund their way to the end of the season, and beyond

Paradise City · 26 Sep 2014, 11:46 (Ref:3457804)

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Maybe the Caterhamians could take a leaf out of Mr Brabham's book, and try and crowdfund their way to the end of the season, and beyond

You might give a few quid to David Brabham but who'd in their right mind would give money to Kolles and his Swiss-Sheik shadow people?

Teretonga · 26 Sep 2014, 18:04 (Ref:3457900)

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

"Pay for tyres or no play" - report

Could be fun in Suzuka soon

The report is denied by Pirelli so they will have tyres.
Caterham has a few problems, mainly in engineering, which probably relates to the finance problem.

We have a situation in F1 now where if the car is bad it is difficult to fix, You cannot just build a new car halfway through the season which is what used to happen even in the 1980's. Everything is much more difficult and expensive. If you make a mistake in building the new car you are stuck with it for a season.

The gap between the 'have's and the have not's' is enormous, not just in facilities, but in personnel, bright minds, and creative design. The bigger team's pull in the best minds, build superb engineering teams, which in turn gather more sponsorship and enable more resources.

Then they get the lions share of the payout's leaving the lesser teams to survive on the crumbs. They came in on a promise of a budget cap but the cost of current engines is about 60% of what Mosley projected the cap to be.

And people blame Tony Fernandes for walking away....

davyboy · 26 Sep 2014, 18:28 (Ref:3457907)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

What a complete tit he is...

Totally.

Nikki Katz · 26 Sep 2014, 22:14 (Ref:3457966)

Bernie's repeatedly said though that his ideal race is a race with two cars - one leading and one chasing. I think he's trying to make his dreams a reality

**GTRMagic** · 27 Sep 2014, 00:48 (Ref:3457987)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teretonga

The report is denied by Pirelli so they will have tyres.
Caterham has a few problems, mainly in engineering, which probably relates to the finance problem.

We have a situation in F1 now where if the car is bad it is difficult to fix, You cannot just build a new car halfway through the season which is what used to happen even in the 1980's. Everything is much more difficult and expensive. If you make a mistake in building the new car you are stuck with it for a season.

The gap between the 'have's and the have not's' is enormous, not just in facilities, but in personnel, bright minds, and creative design. The bigger team's pull in the best minds, build superb engineering teams, which in turn gather more sponsorship and enable more resources.

Then they get the lions share of the payout's leaving the lesser teams to survive on the crumbs. They came in on a promise of a budget cap but the cost of current engines is about 60% of what Mosley projected the cap to be.

And people blame Tony Fernandes for walking away....

It took Pirelli a little while to deny it... perhaps some folding stuff changed hands in the interim?

Current teams change their aero configurations on what seems to be a weekly basis, different specs for different circuits... depending if there is a long straight to go well in or not. All of that burns money faster than any other thing they do.

Should it remain an engineer's virtual orgasm to put a new front wing on a car at every race of the season, or should they homologate a wing at season's start and be stuck with it till a mid season rehomologation?

Meantime, Silanna must be well pleased with their small wing endplate sponsorship getting them almost full car coverage now

Teretonga · 28 Sep 2014, 17:07 (Ref:3458397)

Quote:

Originally Posted by nobster

They have a few races to go this season, if this goes on then they might not make it till the end...

Caterham is saying they do have a plan and they will be here next year... so perhaps the speculation is just that.

kickstart · 28 Sep 2014, 17:13 (Ref:3458401)

They are hardly likely to admit that they don't have a plan beyond buying a ticket for the euromillions...
I read on another website there are 22 CCJ against them - don't know if that's correct but if it is, it does not bode well

Moneyseeker · 29 Sep 2014, 17:12 (Ref:3458642)

Caterham new owners are saying that they are finding more financial liabilities than they expected.

"But our 2015 plan is in place regardless of achieving the 10th place, although I don't need to say achieving the 10th place is of huge, huge importance.
"We also have to be very realistic because we inherited a very, very difficult situation from previous ownership."
Ravetto made clear that the team had been working flat out to keep the outfit's finances in shape, and had dealt with a number of unexpected financial situations since taking over.
"In this team the surprises never end," he said.
"This is not nice because I believe that we restructured things in a way that we could manage the team, and we could live from what we generate in terms of income.
"If we keep having 10 surprises per day then we have to keep doing 10 miracles per day. So my concern is what happens when we run out of miracles."

Will be a new front wing for Suzuka though.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/116084

Nikki Katz · 29 Sep 2014, 19:43 (Ref:3458685)

I hope that they pull through but it's looking less and less likely. It's a shame as the new owners appear to be really trying to keep it afloat. Actually Fernandes will have put a lot into the team prior to this year (when he's clearly given up), it's just because of the lack of the promised budget cap that they find themselves in this situation.

**chunterer** · 30 Sep 2014, 08:08 (Ref:3458797)

I'm no financial expert at all but is it feasible that Kolles wants this to get to the end of the season and then topple so that he can snap up the important assets from the administrators?

steve_r · 30 Sep 2014, 08:48 (Ref:3458805)

I'm sure some financial boffin would be able to answer that. My impresion is that they are making noises about working on next years car in the wind tunnel etc, because thet want to sell the team on again as a functioning F1 team.

**bella** · 30 Sep 2014, 12:33 (Ref:3458877)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chunterer

I'm no financial expert at all but is it feasible that Kolles wants this to get to the end of the season and then topple so that he can snap up the important assets from the administrators?

see, i thought it was an asset stripping exercise too. but the priority still seems to be paying staff over suppliers, which is an unusually morally sound way to go about things. and it really does sound like the 2015 car is progressing as it is in any other team, so they were looking at it as a going concern.

it definitely sounds as if the new buyers weren't at all aware of how many suppliers were so far behind in receiving their money. on the one hand they should have done better due diligance. but they didn't, so they must have really wanted to buy the/a team...

davyboy · 30 Sep 2014, 13:43 (Ref:3458896)

Quote:

Originally Posted by bella

see, i thought it was an asset stripping exercise too. but the priority still seems to be paying staff over suppliers, which is an unusually morally sound way to go about things. and it really does sound like the 2015 car is progressing as it is in any other team, so they were looking at it as a going concern.

it definitely sounds as if the new buyers weren't at all aware of how many suppliers were so far behind in receiving their money. on the one hand they should have done better due diligance. but they didn't, so they must have really wanted to buy the/a team...

In transactions like these the sellers would normally disclose full details of all debts and anything not disclosed would fall back into the lap of the seller - via a lawsuit if necessary. So I'm not sure what they're talking about.

Paradise City · 30 Sep 2014, 13:43 (Ref:3458897)

It's amazing how often foolish wealthy people but people who are not quite wealthy enough occasionally pop up to buy one of these teams.

They should skip all the rig moroll and just give all the extra money they want to waste to me!

steve_r · 30 Sep 2014, 15:59 (Ref:3458923)

I just hope that the team is bought by someone who can run it properly and competitively, or alternatively it is left to die once-and-for-all in the closed season. Would hate to see it passed from pillar to post like HRT was, before the inevitable happened.

davyboy · 1 Oct 2014, 10:04 (Ref:3459136)

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve_r

I just hope that the team is bought by someone who can run it properly and competitively, or alternatively it is left to die once-and-for-all in the closed season. Would hate to see it passed from pillar to post like HRT was, before the inevitable happened.

To be fair to Caterham and Tony Fernandes, they were drawn into F1 under false pretenses. They joined the fray under the assumption there would be a budget cap at £40M. That didn't happen. The financial playing field never came close to being leveled and they were left to drown at the back end of the grid. It's a great pity because it really doesn't need to be like this. Still, one by one they'll all fall until such time as there's nobody left, competing or watching.

Greem · 1 Oct 2014, 17:36 (Ref:3459226)

Rumours doing the rounds that staff at Leafield have been told to switch everything off and leave, bailiffs and police in attendance. Not sure if it's completely true or not but it doesn't sound good.

**BertMk2** · 1 Oct 2014, 19:03 (Ref:3459254)

Caterham say it's all ********:

http://hosted-p0.vresp.com/843201/01f9077329/ARCHIVE

Greem · 1 Oct 2014, 19:06 (Ref:3459256)

Indeed.

Surprised, in that case, to have seen some fairly trusted sources commenting on it. Will have to readjust my definition of "trust" as a result. Sorry for the noise.

**BertMk2** · 1 Oct 2014, 19:08 (Ref:3459258)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greem

Indeed.

Surprised, in that case, to have seen some fairly trusted sources commenting on it. Will have to readjust my definition of "trust" as a result. Sorry for the noise.

Has to be said that just because Caterham are doing the "it's all fine" spiel - doesn't necessarily mean it is.....

maximus · 1 Oct 2014, 20:05 (Ref:3459278)

Quote:

Originally Posted by BertMk2

Caterham say it's all ********:

http://hosted-p0.vresp.com/843201/01f9077329/ARCHIVE

ORLY Caterham

Unless these are all 3rd party items (A Car? Yeah right)

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