Brabham BT36 - Page 12

Bryan Miller · 1 Nov 2007, 21:00 (Ref:2057228)

Or , you do what we do over here , the inspecting eligibility officer oversees the cutting up and destruction of the old chassis , with one exception this is the norm , we screwed up once .

Bryan Miller · 1 Nov 2007, 21:02 (Ref:2057230)

And I should have added , we photograph the mess and the photo's then go in the master file at CAMS H.O.

Andrew Fellowes · 1 Nov 2007, 21:10 (Ref:2057235)

Quote:

Originally Posted by phdm

The FIA papers were misplaced and re-issued at some point in time.
On the other set of papers (I had a look at both) it is Abba Kogan's name that is indicated

It might be on the front page but Abba's name is not on the back page, I've got a photo copy infront of me and the last change of ownership is to TR Green.

Two things about the AM number, unless you sandpaper the paint off you cannot be 100% sure. The other is that if the AM number was a guess then its a darn good one. I know several 36 numbers (none of which would have been known in 1993) and it fits the sequence perfectly.

Is it a new chassis? If so why is the lift pump bracket missing and the starter solenoid bracket missing?

Andrew

Andrew Fellowes · 1 Nov 2007, 21:34 (Ref:2057249)

I would add that I dont think I have seen such a messy oil and water system, the oil tank is the right design but looks like a replacement, the instruments are horrible, the chassis plate is in the wrong spot but I think I am right in saying BT36-11 is in the same place and it looks well stressed for age.
I might call Barry Leitch if I can and see what happened in NZ.
In time the French connections would be interesting to verify.

The FIA system flawed? Oh I so agree, its simply crap. Andrew

Andrew Fellowes · 1 Nov 2007, 22:16 (Ref:2057276)

phdm thank you for the photos of the change of owners page one with Kogan and no Green, the other with Green and no Kogan. I assume the former is a correction to the latter.

Andrew

ianr · 1 Nov 2007, 23:57 (Ref:2057329)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Fellowes

It might be on the front page but Abba's name is not on the back page, I've got a photo copy infront of me and the last change of ownership is to TR Green.

Two things about the AM number, unless you sandpaper the paint off you cannot be 100% sure. The other is that if the AM number was a guess then its a darn good one. I know several 36 numbers (none of which would have been known in 1993) and it fits the sequence perfectly.

Is it a new chassis? If so why is the lift pump bracket missing and the starter solenoid bracket missing?

Andrew

Andrew, I would assume that the arch motors number AM 71 49 was on the original chassis, and was not a guess.

As for the brackets missing, there are all sorts of other things which are not there, wrong, or in the wrong place on the chassis, but you know all about these cars and must be able to spot them!

Ted Walker · 4 Nov 2007, 08:30 (Ref:2059129)

I think you will find the "Mr Green " is (or was) Abba Kogans "man"

allenbrown · 4 Nov 2007, 09:57 (Ref:2059183)

Quote:

Originally Posted by allenbrown

"A source" just told me that Tony Green is Abba Kogan's right-hand man.

Try to keep up Ted.

Andrew Fellowes · 7 Nov 2007, 22:12 (Ref:2062487)

Quote:

Originally Posted by allenbrown

Try to keep up Ted.

come on Allen, what do you expect from the West Country? Too many cider apples there, we have a similar problem in Queensland, when you cross the border from New South Wales you put your clock back one hour and one year

Ok I've just noticed in my notes that earlier in this thread we had an unconfirmed report that Yves Bole had BT36-6 in France in 1990. Anyone know if this address is correct?
Yves Bole, 31 Ave J Jaures, Venissieux 69200 France

Bryan Miller · 7 Nov 2007, 22:48 (Ref:2062520)

Andrew , back one hour and TEN years . ouch.

With my Historic Eligibility hat on , let's suppose , we know that BT36-5 was in NZ for a period of time lately , and it appears that Leach brothers in NZ made a new chassis , for whatever reason , so we have the BT36-5 back in Europe , and the genuine frame where ????? Europe or left in NZ , the FIA papers can't / won't have an indication that the frame has possibly been replaced , as technically they don't even know it has happened.
There is provision on the FIA and our application forms asking about the frame on initial application but after that how can this sort of replacement be recorded , it can't .
Let us suppose that the old frame is still in NZ , it is possible next week / next century this could be built up as the REAL DEAL.

Andrew Fellowes · 7 Nov 2007, 23:22 (Ref:2062539)

Just spoken to Barry Leitch, he did freshen up BT36-5 and there is an AM number on it in the usual place.
Too much paint?
Andrew

Bryan Miller · 7 Nov 2007, 23:33 (Ref:2062544)

So , we don't have a new chassis , just a lot of primers , and two pack paint hiding the AM number.?????????????

James Murray · 8 Nov 2007, 08:53 (Ref:2062756)

I can confirm that the AM number on 36-11 is very difficult to read, even from the bare chassis, and with powder coating on it, its virtually invisible. Are yours the same Andrew?

Its funny I've seen some AM numbers that are impossible to miss and very clear and others that are impossible to identify. I guess it depended on who had the stamp in his hand on that particular day!

Andrew Fellowes · 8 Nov 2007, 09:23 (Ref:2062778)

James #1 has nothing and #2 has AM and thats it!

(pm sent)

ianr · 8 Nov 2007, 15:04 (Ref:2063074)

Quote:

Originally Posted by James Murray

I can confirm that the AM number on 36-11 is very difficult to read, even from the bare chassis, and with powder coating on it, its virtually invisible. Are yours the same Andrew?

Its funny I've seen some AM numbers that are impossible to miss and very clear and others that are impossible to identify. I guess it depended on who had the stamp in his hand on that particular day!

James

I can't agree with you that the AM nunber on your chassis is difficult to see, when I looked at it with your Dad last year prior to you rebuilding it, and it was still painted at the time, whilst perhaps the actual numbers were a little indistinct, it was quite obviously a set of stamped numbers AM etc.

As for who stamped the numbers and how hard, perhaps CL was not only the best fabricator at Arch at the time (you can spot his work long before you get near enough to see any stamping) but also the only person who could make a decent job of hitting a stamp with a hammer! Perhaps Bryan will agree here?

The only way to end the, has it? or hasn't it? debate is for the new owner to come forward (and I don't think we have far to look) and clean the paint off in the presence of an FIA or National Historic Signatory.

Bryan Miller · 8 Nov 2007, 21:20 (Ref:2063364)

Ian , yes I would agree , my frame is a CL version and numbers and letters are legible even with paint on top

benjabulle · 29 Nov 2007, 20:07 (Ref:2078176)

Hi all experts, I try to identify the type of this Brabham, I originally thought it was a BT30 but it seems to be a BT35 or BT36. The photos were taken in 2005 at Dijon during the European F2 Club round, thanks for the help.

Andrew Fellowes · 29 Nov 2007, 20:43 (Ref:2078194)

That looks like Bob Sellix's car.
benjabulle it has a strange history. It carries the chassis plate BT30-21 from the car that Brambilla wrecked at Pau in 1971.
I know nothing more 'till the car appeared with Sepp Mayer and as you have guessed its a BT35 chassis with a 1972 AM number and the only bit that is BT30 is the chassis plate.

benjabulle · 29 Nov 2007, 20:50 (Ref:2078199)

Thanks Andrew, yes, strange story and I understand now why it was entered as a BT30 in the programme and maybe also in official results.

allenbrown · 16 Dec 2007, 20:39 (Ref:2090059)

BT36-6 or BT36-7?

Photos of the BT36 in the ACA museum

benjabulle · 17 Dec 2007, 22:20 (Ref:2090864)

I was surprised to find that on the net :

http://foro-gratis.latin-foros.com/t...ohistoria.html

Andrew Fellowes · 18 Dec 2007, 22:22 (Ref:2091595)

benjabulle thanks for that link, great drawings.

Quote:

Originally Posted by allenbrown

BT36-6 or BT36-7?

Photos of the BT36 in the ACA museum

Well I guess its the car from the Fangio Museum as I've just searched there and it seems to have gone, so most likely its BT36-6.
I have emailed the ACA Museum, fingers crossed, this is a photo from the ACA web site, what's the car on the left of this group?

Andrew

Andrew Fellowes · 18 Dec 2007, 22:49 (Ref:2091619)

Ooops, thanks Ian, Level 5
http://72.14.203.104/translate_c?hl=...ari%26rls%3Den
Now I'm really lost, -what's new? Andrew

Andrew Fellowes · 19 Dec 2007, 06:29 (Ref:2091733)

http://img179.imagevenue.com/view.ph..._122_186lo.JPG

First one in the post above in the Fangio Museum, the second in this post in the ACA. They appear superficially to be different cars.

IHB33 · 22 Feb 2008, 01:15 (Ref:2134654)

Hi

New to the Forum - but just a couple of bits of information.

1972 - BT36/1 was only leased to Graham Hill for the Easter weekend meeting @ Thruxton - from Tate of Leeds - to Kaydon Racing - whilst they waited for the BT38 to be delivered.

1972 - BT36/3 - I rebuilt this car ( actually in my mother's garage in Weybridge, as we were short of space in the workshops) whilst working for Kaydon Racing in 1972 - Bernd Terbeck had been involved I believe in the fatal accident with Bert Hawthorne in Alan McCall's Tui @ Hockenheim and we repaired and re-assembled the car and it was put up for sale. I don't unfortunately remember where it went.
I think it was white - mostly unpainted fibreglass gelcoat - when it was up for sale.

Ian

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