IMSA USCC in 2016 and 2017

[canamman]

[QUOTE=Rodger Davies;3617471]I always had an issue with the PLM name, would much rather it was the Road Atlanta 10 Hours or 1000 Miles or whatever. Works for Le Mans, Daytona, Sebring, Spa, Bathurst, Dubai or whatever (whilst we're at it, Gulf 12 Hours? Pfft).
/QUOTE]

Around here we just call it "The Petite". Since ALMS is gone they
should drop "Le Mans", especially, if they have to pay to use it.

I still hope for the day its made into a 24hr.

[TF110]

That's my opinion. There's little connection to Le Mans anymore. Just was being sarcastic and taking a little 'America ftw' joke when I said "shorter than daytona". But I can seriously see them calling it "Lil' Daytona" or something goofy

[Rcz]

What? Dosen't the Braselton 1000 have nice ring to it?

[HORNDAWG]

Petit Le Mans works just fine!











L.P.

[rich07]

Petit Braselton?

[Maelochs]

Regardless of what they call the races ... Daytona this year was (IMO) the best in a Lot of years. Sebring stands to be the best since ... somewhere between 2008 and the last time Peugeot and/or Audi ran? ILMC? PLM this year could be (or not ... the IMSA folks have turned gold into lead before) the best in several years as well.

I don't see any of these races ever reverting to WEC status, which means we won't ever see the true P1s in them---or at least not for half a decade or so. U.S. manufacturers simply don't see value in spending like Porsche/Audi/VAG and Toyota are right now. Therefore, no reason to weaken their own in-house ad campaign ... I mean U.S racing series---by allowing the immediate contrast with much better cars.

Still, the racing can be amazing. Conti has had some excellent races through the years and no one would ever accuse its vaguely group 4-ish cars of being the best of anything. Bathhurst has staged some awesome races, and some of the Creventic races have been great ... and they were all prototype-free.

IMSA/WSCC can oput on an amazing season of racing this year. If the series can get the BoP right for Sebring and the rest of the real road tracks, we might actually see real competition among all the P teams for the overall win. The GT racing has always been good. Add a serious competitive prototype class ... no reason why the racing could not be as good as any racing anywhere.

I understand the roles that tradition can play in sports car racing and among its fans, but ultimately it is the racing, not the hype, the branding, or the history which makes or breaks the event, the season, the series.

The Rolex lost its luster when it was no longer an international race, but became a second-rate semi-pro club race. This year, however, even though it featured only one "international" P2 team it was a good race.

Sebring losts some of its luster when FIA decided to drop it and a lot more when TUSC took over ...but this year could well be a step back towards it being a notable race. it mioght never again attract an international field, but that is economics ... American buyers don't seem to respond in the same way as European buyers, to teams' racing efforts, so Euro-based manufacturers really don't have an incentive to spend a lot of money racing here. That is not the fault of TUSC, WSCC, IMSA, Grand-Am, or ALMS. it is just that racing has become more business-like through the decades.

And none of that dictates that Sevbring can never again be a great race. Look, the Indy 500 hasn't attracted international entries in what, 50 years? But it is still pretty much The major American auto race ... vying for that title with the Daytona 500, which has never attracted international anything, and only occasionally offers anything I would call "auto racing" (just kidding, folks. Enjoyed this year's race---someone actually won for some reason other than avoiding the final few huge wrecks.)

The Rolex and Sebring can regain their stature ... and so can PLM. If "European involvement" is really the deciding factor as to whether a race has any significance, or "run by Le Mans 24 rules" determines a race's value ... the all of the Camel GT years and all of Can-Am didn't qualify (for one or the other reason--and yes, I have heard of "Interserie.")

Whether or not fans continue to view Daytona, Sebring, and PLM as major sports car racing events is up to the fans ... and if fans choose not to ... doesn't hurt me much. I go either way, and enjoy as much as I can.

However, I would urge fans to take a slightly broader view sometimes. PLM can have its own worth aside form any supposed "Le Mans' connection. Sebring can be a worthwhile race even if two or three big European teams don't choose to compete.

The names matter to recall the history ... but also as names, to identify the events. The events can change just as the tracks can change, without the event losing its cachet, or its vaue.

PLM might not be the same race it was in 1999, but using that to cut it into tiny peices or devalue it altogether .. Le Mans isn't the same race it was in 1923 or 1953 or 1973 ... anyone here think it should be cut to a four-hour sprint? or forced to change its name because the race and the course has changed?

"Petit Le Mans" hasn't been completely sold out ... it has changed and adapted but it is still pretty close to what it was at its inception---a true North American sports car endurance race. Whittling away at it because we don't still live in 1999 ... well, why not the 2.5 hours of Sebring?

Now ... Lone Star Le Mans .... you want a target, how can you overlook that one?

[Maelochs]

And no, I am in no way embarrassed by or apologetic for that senseless rambling screed I just posted. I haven't been to bed yet and I am so amped on coffee i am surprised I can type ... and I am leaving for Sebring in a few minutes, so i won't sleep for a Long time (I Hope) and when I do I will have forgotten I posted all that drivel. In fact, I will probably not recall posting it and will swear someone hacked my account.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by Maelochs

Regardless of what they call the races ... Daytona this year was (IMO) the best in a Lot of years. Sebring stands to be the best since ... somewhere between 2008 and the last time Peugeot and/or Audi ran? ILMC? PLM this year could be (or not ... the IMSA folks have turned gold into lead before) the best in several years as well.

I don't see any of these races ever reverting to WEC status, which means we won't ever see the true P1s in them---or at least not for half a decade or so. U.S. manufacturers simply don't see value in spending like Porsche/Audi/VAG and Toyota are right now. Therefore, no reason to weaken their own in-house ad campaign ... I mean U.S racing series---by allowing the immediate contrast with much better cars.

Still, the racing can be amazing. Conti has had some excellent races through the years and no one would ever accuse its vaguely group 4-ish cars of being the best of anything. Bathhurst has staged some awesome races, and some of the Creventic races have been great ... and they were all prototype-free.

IMSA/WSCC can oput on an amazing season of racing this year. If the series can get the BoP right for Sebring and the rest of the real road tracks, we might actually see real competition among all the P teams for the overall win. The GT racing has always been good. Add a serious competitive prototype class ... no reason why the racing could not be as good as any racing anywhere.

I understand the roles that tradition can play in sports car racing and among its fans, but ultimately it is the racing, not the hype, the branding, or the history which makes or breaks the event, the season, the series.

The Rolex lost its luster when it was no longer an international race, but became a second-rate semi-pro club race. This year, however, even though it featured only one "international" P2 team it was a good race.

Sebring losts some of its luster when FIA decided to drop it and a lot more when TUSC took over ...but this year could well be a step back towards it being a notable race. it mioght never again attract an international field, but that is economics ... American buyers don't seem to respond in the same way as European buyers, to teams' racing efforts, so Euro-based manufacturers really don't have an incentive to spend a lot of money racing here. That is not the fault of TUSC, WSCC, IMSA, Grand-Am, or ALMS. it is just that racing has become more business-like through the decades.

And none of that dictates that Sevbring can never again be a great race. Look, the Indy 500 hasn't attracted international entries in what, 50 years? But it is still pretty much The major American auto race ... vying for that title with the Daytona 500, which has never attracted international anything, and only occasionally offers anything I would call "auto racing" (just kidding, folks. Enjoyed this year's race---someone actually won for some reason other than avoiding the final few huge wrecks.)

The Rolex and Sebring can regain their stature ... and so can PLM. If "European involvement" is really the deciding factor as to whether a race has any significance, or "run by Le Mans 24 rules" determines a race's value ... the all of the Camel GT years and all of Can-Am didn't qualify (for one or the other reason--and yes, I have heard of "Interserie.")

Whether or not fans continue to view Daytona, Sebring, and PLM as major sports car racing events is up to the fans ... and if fans choose not to ... doesn't hurt me much. I go either way, and enjoy as much as I can.

However, I would urge fans to take a slightly broader view sometimes. PLM can have its own worth aside form any supposed "Le Mans' connection. Sebring can be a worthwhile race even if two or three big European teams don't choose to compete.

The names matter to recall the history ... but also as names, to identify the events. The events can change just as the tracks can change, without the event losing its cachet, or its vaue.

PLM might not be the same race it was in 1999, but using that to cut it into tiny peices or devalue it altogether .. Le Mans isn't the same race it was in 1923 or 1953 or 1973 ... anyone here think it should be cut to a four-hour sprint? or forced to change its name because the race and the course has changed?

"Petit Le Mans" hasn't been completely sold out ... it has changed and adapted but it is still pretty close to what it was at its inception---a true North American sports car endurance race. Whittling away at it because we don't still live in 1999 ... well, why not the 2.5 hours of Sebring?

Now ... Lone Star Le Mans .... you want a target, how can you overlook that one?

[Coach Ep]

More potential for Mercedes participation:

Shegem said they plan to order an additional two Mercedes-AMG GT3s by the middle of this year for a planned expansion into the IMSA WeatherTech SportsCar Championship for either late this season or in 2017.

http://sportscar365.com/gt/world-cha...es-pwc-effort/

[MaskedRacer]

Originally Posted by Coach Ep

More potential for Mercedes participation:



http://sportscar365.com/gt/world-cha...es-pwc-effort/

Who knows how many teams might want to enter with Mercedes but are just waiting for somebody to buy them a ticket before they walk in. (AKA the manufacturers entry fee)

[CyberMotor]

Originally Posted by Coach Ep

More potential for Mercedes participation:
http://sportscar365.com/gt/world-cha...es-pwc-effort/

Mercedes is moving its US headquarters to Atlanta and its big plant is over in Birmingham. I wonder if moving into the center of the southern racing scene has had any effect?

[Bob Baldwin]

Originally Posted by CyberMotor

Mercedes is moving its US headquarters to Atlanta and its big plant is over in Birmingham. I wonder if moving into the center of the southern racing scene has had any effect?

I doubt very much that moving into the southern racing scene had much to do with the EFFECT . When you consider the TOTAL COST of relocation . Look at some other corporations that are moving southward . The overall cost of doing business is quite a bit less in the Southern States than up north .It is called " LETS MAKE A DEAL !! " Of course the lone exception to that is the " GE " corp deal moving from Conn to the M******* ot TAXACHUSSETTS STATE but that very much has a lot to do with political incantations !!! LOL

[CyberMotor]

Originally Posted by Bob Baldwin

I doubt very much that moving into the southern racing scene had much to do with the EFFECT . When you consider the TOTAL COST of relocation . Look at some other corporations that are moving southward . The overall cost of doing business is quite a bit less in the Southern States than up north .It is called " LETS MAKE A DEAL !! " Of course the lone exception to that is the " GE " corp deal moving from Conn to the M******* ot TAXACHUSSETTS STATE but that very much has a lot to do with political incantations !!! LOL

Not sure if that was an Agree, Don't Agree or Maybe!

[CyberMotor]

Originally Posted by CyberMotor

Not sure if that was an Agree, Don't Agree or Maybe!

My last post was my 1010 post on this forum.

How much more digital can you get than that?

[Bob Baldwin]

Originally Posted by CyberMotor

Not sure if that was an Agree, Don't Agree or Maybe!

That was a definate DON't AGREE !!!

[BrentJackson]

Originally Posted by CyberMotor

Mercedes is moving its US headquarters to Atlanta and its big plant is over in Birmingham. I wonder if moving into the center of the southern racing scene has had any effect?

Having BMW and Porsche and Audi all involved in IMSA probably has more to do with that than any relocation, really. They are running a substantial effort in World Challenge, probably just looking for the right time to jump into IMSA and somebody to pony up IMSA's idiotic partner fees.

[Coach Ep]

Mercedes coughing up the marketing fee themselves (or at least partially) seems like a possibility as well:

http://sportscar365.com/imsa/iwsc/ne...olex-24-debut/

[Fogelhund]

Hardly a political arena, yet.... http://www.racer.com/nascar/item/126...ping-world-ceo

Nice Job France, supporting Bigotry and Vulgarity... just to start. Anyway.. no place in Autoracing for this. Camping World CEO already came out against this, hopefully they pull their sponsorship.

[MaskedRacer]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

Hardly a political arena, yet.... http://www.racer.com/nascar/item/126...ping-world-ceo

Nice Job France, supporting Bigotry and Vulgarity... just to start. Anyway.. no place in Autoracing for this. Camping World CEO already came out against this, hopefully they pull their sponsorship.

Flag this administrator. No place for such a stupid comment like this on the forum

[TF110]

I agree. Political talk has it's own place. It can get ugly here on that topic. Particularly in this thread, that's the last thing we need.

[Rcz]

I still don't understand why there's a manufacturers fee for GT3 cars. I understand for Prototypes and GTLM because there's factory support and you need money to run the show but it shouldn't be this way for costumer based class.

Thought, there are some factories in GTD like Audi and the upcoming Lexus. They should be in GTE not GTD

[Rodger Davies]

Looking at it a different (and not completely realistic) way, they're charging the manufacturers to be able to use their shop to sell their products. Call it commission, if you will (albeit commission that exceeds the value of the sales...)

[FormulaFox]

Originally Posted by Rodger Davies

Looking at it a different (and not completely realistic) way, they're charging the manufacturers to be able to use their shop to sell their products. Call it commission, if you will (albeit commission that exceeds the value of the sales...)

IMSA's bosses try to sell the idea as marketing money to help promote the series and their involvement. Most manufacturers don't buy it for a moment - they know it's a fee to be paid for the "privilege" of participating in IMSA, but for most of them the cars they sell to GT3 customers outweigh the expense.

And the series bosses REALLY don't like it when someone points out the BS in a way for which they don't have a ready-made response.

[Coach Ep]

The alternative would be increasing the entry fees substantially me thinks. That won't be popular either but at least gives all teams the opportunity to participate if they choose to.

If the numbers of GTD entrants becomes too high (more than 25 or so), let qualifying solve the issue. And start a separate GT(3) series.

[BullMan]

Originally Posted by Coach Ep

The alternative would be increasing the entry fees substantially me thinks. That won't be popular either but at least gives all teams the opportunity to participate if they choose to.

If the numbers of GTD entrants becomes too high (more than 25 or so), let qualifying solve the issue. And start a separate GT(3) series.

They're never going to turn away a car on an entry list via qualifying. Those days are long gone.