What is Aston Martin up to?

[The Badger]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

That was definitely better. It looked great and it at least got some running.....

Yeah , Peraja got a half a formation lap outta it !!!

[arakis]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

JLOC did one lap. One measely lap.

And do you really have a memory that stretches back to 1923...?

JLOC has an excuse, they had a lamburgini as a base car, and they are not exacly rock solid.
AM has no excuse they built a purpuse build endurance prototype that cant turn 10 laps at le mans. Its their baybe from front to back and its all shoddy work

[Aysedasi]

JLOC had no excuse at all. Should never had entered. But we did that to death long ago. The thread's about Aston, not JLOC or BRM.......

[knighty]

Originally Posted by JAG

On Racecar Engineering they said the turbo set-up may change to a twin turbo.

very interesting......just had a rummage and found this with an engine image too......yes it does sound like they have basic boost issues in getting the engine to respond when exiting the mulsanne chicanes, this is probably directly linked to the low top speed........a not inconsiderable point is the engine block is machined from solid billet, you can clearly see the difference in texture betwen the head casting and block.......this kinda implies the block was implicit in their early issues, for sure a piece of billet material will be much nicer to apply a nikasil or plasma bore spray coating to than a sand casting and its associated impurities.......I guess this confirms they dont have seperate cylinder liners like F1 & Audi disesel...... brave.....but too brave

http://www.racecar-engineering.com/a...al-report-lmp/

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[MulsanneMike]

Originally Posted by knighty

very interesting......just had a rummage and found this with an engine image too......yes it does sound like they have basic boost issues in getting the engine to respond when exiting the mulsanne chicanes, this is probably directly linked to the low top speed........a not inconsiderable point is the engine block is machined from solid billet, you can clearly see the difference in texture betwen the head casting and block.......this kinda implies the block was implicit in their early issues, for sure a piece of billet material will be much nicer to apply a nikasil or plasma bore spray coating to than a sand casting and its associated impurities.......I guess this confirms they dont have seperate cylinder liners like F1 & Audi disesel...... brave.....but too brave

http://www.racecar-engineering.com/a...al-report-lmp/

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Sam mentions AMR is considering twin turbos. I'm curious, having been an ardent fan of the Porsche 959, is anyone doing sequential turbo charging these days or is that well out of fashion?

[chernaudi]

Ford 6.4 Powerstroke diesel has been using seq. turbos for a while, and the 6.7 has a seq-like compound turbo (two turbochargers in one) of which one half has a VTG-like setup.

However, I don't know of any racing applications of such a thing, at least recently--the Porsche 961 (the road racing derivitive of the 959 Group B/Rally Raid cars) may've used the seq. turbos of the 959, but I'm not sure if that transfered, as the car only raced at LM in '86 and '87 to my knowlege.

[courageous]

Let's all drink the cool-aid for a minute...

Say Aston Martin do perform this magic turnaround, just what are we thinking would be "good"


2011/2012/2013?

Outright ILMC/WEC win?
Best petrol?
Top 10?
Finishing the race?

[JAG]

Against the current field, best petrol car has to be the goal.

[isynge]

Originally Posted by courageous

Let's all drink the cool-aid for a minute...

Say Aston Martin do perform this magic turnaround, just what are we thinking would be "good"


2011/2012/2013?

Outright ILMC/WEC win?
Best petrol?
Top 10?
Finishing the race?

Seeing this as an evolutionary programme, and laying aside the lateness and catastrophic project management call at Le Mans I'd see the aspirations being something along the lines of...

2011 Complete a race distance
2012 There or there abouts with petrol runners (assuming no new factory petrol effort)
2013 Overall competitive performance, while probably not challenging for wins

At risk of sounding like Dr Pangloss, the running so far would appear to indicate that the chassis isn't bad, so if the engine can get sorted, and in the right circumstances, I can see the AMR-ONE winning a race in LMS / ALMS circumstances, although I suspect they're never going to have the baseline level of resources to win against WEC opposition. If they achieve this it's probably not a bad thing in terms of their overall business model - something distinctive and broadly competitive is still going to be highly collectible, which deep down is what Aston Martin is ultimately selling.

[AGD]

Originally Posted by courageous

Let's all drink the cool-aid for a minute...

Say Aston Martin do perform this magic turnaround, just what are we thinking would be "good"


2011/2012/2013?

Outright ILMC/WEC win?
Best petrol?
Top 10?
Finishing the race?

Right now, I think being the best petrol car would be good. That's pretty much what the Lola AMR was. IF Toyota, Nissan, or whoever bring in factory petrols, I would say being the best behind those names would be good or at least acceptable and understandable. However, I guess it depends on how far off the pace they are. If being the "best of the rest" means being down 8 seconds or something, that would be pretty shabby.

It seems that the factory petrol rumors are centered around hybrid projects. The AMR-One's compact engine seems to leave room for hybridization, any chance we could see that next year? It could help them close the gap, but on the other hand, maybe it would be better if they went without it given their budget constraints and need to do significant testing just with what they have now.

Does anyone have an idea about what Dave Richards was talking about when he was saying that the performance balancing will be different when the FIA comes in? I thought the FIA's role was mainly for promotional items and that regulations were still in the ACO's hand. Maybe not? Richards' comments seem rather...odd...given what we have been told what will happen next year, but maybe he knows something we don't.

[Thin Green]

Originally Posted by AGD

Does anyone have an idea about what Dave Richards was talking about when he was saying that the performance balancing will be different when the FIA comes in? I thought the FIA's role was mainly for promotional items and that regulations were still in the ACO's hand. Maybe not? Richards' comments seem rather...odd...given what we have been told what will happen next year, but maybe he knows something we don't.

FIA always loves to tinker...look at the old FIA GT etc. How about using some handicapping formula: Audi has to do 300 laps before the AMR-One needs to finish 1 lap. (Still may be tough though).

If success is being measured against being the fastest petrol car in the field, then everyone is in for disappointment It never will be. Not in its current form.

Those folks expecting victories need to smell some coffee and get off of the pharmaceuticals.

The comments made about the chassis handling: pretty much any car will handle well when it is so far off the pace.

I would be amazed if the AHA group of contributing drivers will be willing to spend another two years with this 'scrap heap' construction. Life is too short. Lowes will follow Adrian (and he will jump). Harold will jump (back to Pesca/Rebellion?) and Andy (jump anywhere else but AMR). They all can bring money and there is much more immediate success elsewhere.

[höller]

Let's all drink the cool-aid for a minute...

With the Lola-LMP 1 successor they could have been a match for the best petrol car for sure as it was a promising combination, even against the forthcoming jap prototypes. The pivotal point would have been the usage of the new Lola coupe equipped with a V6-AMR-engine. But with the current car they have to start from scratch, because the engine concept seems to be a miscalculation and because of the lack of performance reliable statements of the chassis quality cannot be made so far. The competitive edge of the LMP 1 was given away. So, alas, no frontrunner in the the next three years.

[Dunlop Corner]

Was i the only one that got annoyed with David Richards in the RLM interview? How dare he blame the rules and the Audi/Peugout lobbying for his team coming up with a complete dud as en engine? No matter what the state of the diesel/petrol equalisation is, AMR is not going to feature near the top if their car is hardly faster than a 458!

I really do not see why Audi and Peugout should be scared about the Aston project. If you cannot keep up with LMP2 cars and are miles behind an ancient Pescarolo, then you do not deserve performance breaks.

[AGD]

Originally Posted by Dunlop Corner

Was i the only one that got annoyed with David Richards in the RLM interview? How dare he blame the rules and the Audi/Peugout lobbying for his team coming up with a complete dud as en engine? No matter what the state of the diesel/petrol equalisation is, AMR is not going to feature near the top if their car is hardly faster than a 458!

I really do not see why Audi and Peugout should be scared about the Aston project. If you cannot keep up with LMP2 cars and are miles behind an ancient Pescarolo, then you do not deserve performance breaks.

You're definately not the only one. Read posts 3167, 3191, & 3192 amongst others earlier in this thread.

[Pandamasque]

Originally Posted by Dunlop Corner

Was i the only one that got annoyed with David Richards in the RLM interview? How dare he blame the rules and the Audi/Peugout lobbying for his team coming up with a complete dud as en engine?

You clearly heard something that wasn't said. He never blamed the competition for the current state of AMR-One, but responded to the critics saying that AMR-One engine can never work as a concept.

It seems many people are seriously offended by current AMR performance to the level of being unable to read and hear for a short while after they're reminded of Aston Martin. So they start typing vigorously. That's how this thread's so popular.

[FordCosworthPanoz]

I just cant wait until this thread after Le Mans next year. Somehow I have a feeling us nattering nabobs of negativism are going to have a good time, but we shall see...

[FordCosworthPanoz]

Originally Posted by courageous

Let's all drink the cool-aid for a minute...

Say Aston Martin do perform this magic turnaround, just what are we thinking would be "good"


2011/2012/2013?

Outright ILMC/WEC win?
Best petrol?
Top 10?
Finishing the race?

2011: People will still defend the program no matter their performance
2012: People will still defend the program no matter their performance
2013: People will still defend the program no matter their performance

and

2011: People will still attack the program no matter their performance
2012: People will still attack the program no matter their performance
2013: People will still attack the program no matter their performance.

[Dunlop Corner]

My impression was that when Richards was asked "Why are your engines crap?" his response was along the lines of "We had to take a bad concept because the regulations favours the diesels and that is ACO/Peugout/Audi's fault" (not exact quote obviously). To me that was a wrong and very arrogant reply. I would have liked to see him take responsibility for the catastrophy, apologise to all the AMR fans and pledge to go back to the drawing board. Instead it was another attack inthe petrol/diesel equivalency debate, which in my opinion has absolutely nothing to do with the failure of the AMR-One.


I want to see Aston Martin do well. I loved their GT1 DBR9 and the AMR Lola was a very cool car. I am by no means a particular Aston Martin fan, but it is good for sportscar racing to have them here. After all they are the 3rd biggest team in prototypes.
And because they are AMR and have pedigree it is very disappointing to see them with a performance that rivals JLOC in crappiness. Particularly when we have seen this disaster coming for months. Sportscar racing only has so many constructors and can not afford to see top teams produce crappy cars like that. Aston Martin has let down sportscar racing, and i would like to see them apologise for that and pledge to take things seriously from now on. Instead we have Richards claiming that Audi and Peugeot are "running scared" and it is because of this his company can not do more than 4 laps at Le Mans.

I know top leaders thinks they are being clever by selling their spin story. But that comment from Richards was in my opinion insulting. And in my opinion that attitude is not what AMR needs at this moment if they are to recover (which i hope they do).

[CTD]

To be honest, i had my fear already when the Lola AMR came around.
Compared to how many entries and projects Aston Martin has had at Le Mans, the two overall victories, is poor.
Aston Martin and Mercedes has the same curse, winning Le Mans is almost impossible.

[Pandamasque]

Originally Posted by Dunlop Corner

My impression was that when Richards was asked "Why are your engines crap?" his response was along the lines of "We had to take a bad concept because the regulations favours the diesels and that is ACO/Peugout/Audi's fault" (not exact quote obviously).

Lol. That's not even remotely what he said, obviously. He was asked what he thinks about the the critics of the overall concept, particularity what Baretzky said way back in Spring, that turbocharged i6 is the worst idea he'd ever heard. (hear hear BMW )
DR did mention that the equivalence is way off (it's not like we had to be reminded about that, we did watch the race) and he was right to say that disparaging any efforts by the potential competition is a way to keep the equivalence as it is now. And the way people talk about current petrol engines (apart from AMR) proves his point. Apparently even these new Toyota engines have half the torque of the diesels not because the diesel technology has that inherent advantage but because they just don't try hard enough.

[knighty]

There seems to be alot of people slamming AMR's I6 turbo engine choice, but there is no substance to back up the slams........Bartensky included.......BMW have decided to ditch their normally aspirated V8 in favour of a twin turbo I6 in mass production, if it was such a bad engine configuration, they wouldnt launch it into mass production........turbocharging an I6 is really nothing to get so heated about........the overall problem with AMR's effort is starting to project so late, they seemed to compress 2 years into less that 1 year.

[Deleted]

Funny little facts - #009 would've outqualified the 2008 GT1-entered #009 DBR9 by just over half a second No excuses can hide the horrible performance we just witnessed the other week. I suppose you can only go up from here, but when you need about twelve seconds to be on the pace of the leading petrol car alone...

I just hope FIA doen't start screwing up with the ACO and equivalence formula too much, we all know how brillant they are when it comes to performance balancing ... Richards is probably crying for a 300kg weight break and 20mm restrictor increase already.

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by Chiana

Funny little facts - #009 would've outqualified the 2008 GT1-entered #009 DBR9 by just over half a second

And it would have been outqualified by both the GT1 pole-sitting Corvette and the 2nd-placed Saleen...

[Great Dane]

I saw Adrian Fernadez talking at lenght with Dr Mario Thyssen at Le Mans and exchanging business cards at the end....

My friend overheaard the words "price" and "service"..... I don't suspect they might be planning a summer holiday together

[CTD]

Originally Posted by Great Dane

I saw Adrian Fernadez talking at lenght with Dr Mario Thyssen at Le Mans and exchanging business cards at the end....

My friend overheaard the words "price" and "service"..... I don't suspect they might be planning a summer holiday together

Hmm, even though it sounds convincing, we now for a fact that BMW are leaving Le Mans, for DTM.
But a future (2014?) project together with a private run BMW GT2 seems the most likely.