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28 Oct 2007, 18:50 (Ref:2053511) | #301 | ||
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Bt21b-5
Hi, as you can see I am very new to this site, but I have jut become the owner of 1968 Brabham BT21B-5 [frame no. AM262].
It was brought back from the US in late 1988 and I would like to trace any of its history before then. I have waded through the 300 posts on this thread and note that it is mentioned all too briefly by Chris Townsend [p.14 post #196] as "Pete Knoll USA as FC". Any more details would be most welcome. Bob |
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8 Nov 2007, 00:55 (Ref:2062594) | #302 | |
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Hi, I would like to take you back to the BT-21-12 for sale. I have some history from current owner.
MRS 67-67 Frank Williams 67-67 Charles Lucas 67-68 Michael Beutler 68-68 ? Alfred Mathews II 74-75 ? David Crigler 82-84 Michael Cramay 84-Present If this is not Chassis 12 then were is it? Does anyone have any race documentation (entry forms, etc) for this vehicle? Kevin |
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8 Nov 2007, 09:18 (Ref:2062775) | #303 | ||
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Kevin
The history for the UK in 67-68 is correct: This chassis number was observed on Harry Stiller's MRS run BT21 in early 1967. Stiller then split from MRS and ran his two cars with Lucas later in the season, with Lucas running the earlier car. Beuttler is described as driving an ex Lucas BT21 in 1968, and was observed as running chassis 12 in July 1968. Beuttler's car [maintained by P&M Race Preparations] was sold to Fred Opert early 1969 [see Motoring News Jan 30 1969 p.16] along with one other P&M BT21 x Keith Jupp. After this the story goes cold. Finding Alfred Mathews II might help with the intervening years 1969-74 Chris |
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8 Nov 2007, 13:03 (Ref:2062959) | #304 | |
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Chris - Thanks for that, the jigsaw slowly fills in. This car was put on the Brabham register in 1984 so I doubt it is a copy.
I have had correspondence with Harry Stiller and he told me of the move from MRS. He indicated that it was Brabham that made the move as MRS were concentrating on getting Formula Ford up and running, Harry went along as the driver and current champion (1966) to Lucas. He went on to keep his crown in 1967 and help Lucus develop their Titan chassis. |
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8 Nov 2007, 21:21 (Ref:2063366) | #305 | |||
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8 Nov 2007, 22:30 (Ref:2063422) | #306 | ||
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Bob
I'm afraid that all I have in my notes is that the car was sold new to Knoll with an SCA engine number 50303. The source isn't noted [meaning I probably entered it back in 2000/2001, but engine numbers aren't normally given in the press, so I guess this was from someone who'd made a note off the build records. Chris |
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9 Nov 2007, 09:52 (Ref:2063614) | #307 | |||
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9 Nov 2007, 10:47 (Ref:2063645) | #308 | |||
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10 Nov 2007, 21:50 (Ref:2064658) | #309 | |
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Isn't the internet great!
I found a little tidbit about my BT21C-16 today that was rather fun. I really did not know any early history of the car and early on confused it with the history of BT21-16. After realizing that I was chasing the wrong information I kind of forgot about it. Yesterday, I was bored and typed in the name of the person that the registry (Gari Andreini) had given to me some time ago in Google and I found a guy with the same name living close by in California. I knew it was a long shot but I located his email from a Bridge Club he belonged to and asked if he was the same person taht owned my car from new in 1968. He was as surprised as I was that we connected. He was the same guy! He sold the car in 1973 and became a stockbroker never racing again. We had a great conversation and he is sending me all of his old pictures, plaques and time sheets that he still had. He ordered the car directly from Brabham after attending the Jim Russell school. Although the car came to the US and only ran in northern California as a regional series B car, it is still nice to find it's first history and know it is still configured thae same way. You never know what you may find by digging around on the internet.
Nick |
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14 Nov 2007, 15:54 (Ref:2067387) | #310 | |
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Bt 21c-1
We purchased a Brabham this past spring. Hopefully it should be completed to get on the track this comming summer. I would like to start the process of tracking the history of this car. I recieved very litttle information from the person that previously owned it. After reading thru quite a few of the posts here I will look for the AM # on the car. This is the information I have currently.
BT21C-1 The car was last on the track in 1994 or 1995. Thanks for any help you all can provide. Brian |
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14 Nov 2007, 17:19 (Ref:2067452) | #311 | ||
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Brian
You are in luck, somewhat. The chassis number 21C-1 was given in an ad in Autoweek 2 Nov 1968 Vendor was Peter Nichols Goetz, and the car is described as having a 1600 Vegantune t/c and as having done only three races. Can't tell what they were YET. Said to have been maintained by Wintersteen Racing, Mohrsville PA Chris |
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19 Nov 2007, 21:11 (Ref:2071175) | #312 | |
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Thanks Chris,
Any other information out there would be great. This gives me something to start looking for. Thanks again, Brian |
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11 Dec 2007, 17:50 (Ref:2086660) | #313 | ||
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BT 21 Formula B (#21)
Hi,
I have just snapped that from the Brabham Owners site forum (http://www.nvo.com/brabhams/discussi...sion&UID=10426) Subject My old BT 21 Date Fri Dec 7 2007 18:47 Author James Williamson (jrw642@quixnet.net) I owned an SCCA Formula B car (#21)in 1973 and, of course wish I still had it. Bought it for $3,000 and the late Lee Mueller drove it at Riverside and Ontario speedways. Sold it to a Mel Bliss in Buena Park Ca. and have lost track of both Anybody got any info on them? |
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18 Dec 2007, 06:15 (Ref:2091059) | #314 | ||
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My old car
Quote:
Tom. PS thought Wayne might have remembered the car as I saw him at the races all the time |
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4 Jan 2008, 15:25 (Ref:2099331) | #315 | |||
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5 Jan 2008, 10:20 (Ref:2099864) | #316 | ||
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BT21B info
Autosport March 14 1969
In a piece on the March 2nd Madrid F3 race there is a mention of "Swede Eddie Jacobsson in his newly-acquired ex-Ikusawa Brabham BT21B" - he came 4th. Jurg Dubler was still driving his 1968 BT21B winning the above race. Another piece mentioned that Rene Ligonnet had sold his 1968 BT21B but didn't report to whom! In the report on the F3 race at Mallory there is mention of Alan Rollinson in the ex-Dave Berry BT21B whilst Cyd Williamsd in the Goodwin Brabham BT21B "never got going". |
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6 Jan 2008, 15:53 (Ref:2100666) | #317 | ||
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Bert Hawthorne's BT21 again. We know it arrived in New Zealand in November 1967 (so too early to be a BT21C), got held up at customs and first raced in Feb 1968 (Timaru). It last raced that season at Teretonga in March (says Vercoe). Hawthorne was out again in the first race of the 1968/69 season at Ruapana Park (Vercoe p262 but he doesn't give the date but it can't be any later than late October) and it's hard to believe he took it back to Britain and brought out a car (or another car) again in five months. However, he could well have brought out the update bits to make it a 21C.
Would it be reasonable to assume his 1967/68 and 1968/69 NZ Brabhams were the same car? If, as has been said, it was new when it arrived, then is it just a back-door unnumbered car? I believe this car was later consumed to make a sports car so the AM number may remain a mystery. |
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6 Jan 2008, 17:12 (Ref:2100718) | #318 | |||
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The car he used in NZ in 1968/69 was definitely the one from 1967/68 |
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12 Feb 2008, 01:40 (Ref:2126918) | #319 | |
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Bt21b-12
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28 Feb 2008, 15:21 (Ref:2140148) | #320 | ||
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Bt21-27 Am215
I just bought BT21-27 AM215. Last Owner in France. Seemes to be a Formula Atlantic with 1600 BDA. Is there any further History?
When i get the FIA Papers there is perhaps more information. I could`nt find the Brabham Register. Last edited by Axel Pilz; 28 Feb 2008 at 15:28. Reason: New BT21 |
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29 Feb 2008, 08:59 (Ref:2140680) | #321 | |||
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29 Feb 2008, 09:33 (Ref:2140700) | #322 | |||
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29 Feb 2008, 14:52 (Ref:2140918) | #323 | ||
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Several BT21s and 21B did get t/c engines in period for Atlantic and libre. Can't think of any that got a BDA, so I suspect this is a hillclimb conversion. The AM number is about right [IMHO] but I think Ted can correct me if I'm wrong on that
Chris |
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1 Mar 2008, 17:58 (Ref:2141648) | #324 | ||
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I agree Chris. I've ever recorded BT21-series cars with MAEs, F2 Honda, Gordini-Renault 1.3, pushrod Ford 1.5s, 1.5 and 1.6 twin-cams, FVA, 2-litre BMW, FPF 2.5, Olds 4.1 and Olds 4.5 ... but no BDA. One is possible in French hillclimbs in the 1.6-litre class but I have never seen a BDA mentioned specifically.
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2 Mar 2008, 10:44 (Ref:2142050) | #325 | ||
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When for sale in Paris in 1997, this car had no engine and no gearbox. FT200 gearbox and BDA were installed later.
The car did not have a chassis plate either. I am wondering where the BT21-27(B?) number came from. |
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