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12 May 2013, 17:06 (Ref:3246294) | #301 | |
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I agree. Pirelli should only use the hard tyre from now on.
You'll notice that the majority of the teams, if not all of them, are not commenting about the way the tyres work. Perhaps they all realise that, whilst more durable tyres will not require changing quite so often, it would not be in their best interests with regard to having any hope of winning any championship for the tyres to be made more durable? More durable tyres would not only show bigger discrepancies between the cars, but would also make the closing of any gaps in performance that much more difficult. I also agree that Pirelli need to use better glue. |
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12 May 2013, 17:12 (Ref:3246298) | #302 | ||
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No I did not mean that, produce a range of compounds that don't fall apart, we now have tyres that are de-laminating, I wonder how it feels to be hit in the face at 190MPH by half the bloody tyre..
It is not a tyre championship.. |
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12 May 2013, 17:19 (Ref:3246301) | #303 | ||
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I do agree that the tire failures that Pirelli has had this year are getting beyond ridiculous, but the FIA and FOM have to be held culpable, too, as Pirelli is only making the tires that the FIA and FOM are requesting them to make. It's still on Pirelli's shoulders to make a tire that's at least reasonably durable, but a lot also should rest on the FIA's and FOM's shoulders, too.
It's just like a bunch of the issues that Goodyear has had in NASCAR over the past decade. Goodyear was culpable for sure, as they should've been able to make tires that, again, were reasonably durable, but they too were making the tires that NASCAR and the teams asked them to make. Everyone I mentioned has a hand in this mess. All the more ridiculous is that at the Silverstone WEC round, Audi even though of triple stinting their Michelin tires during the race and they double stinted with remarkable ease. Even the current Goodyear tires in some situations that NASCAR have can be run competitively when old. If F1 wants strategy, re-introduce refueling. I also believe that the cars, carrying more than 300lbs worth or fuel onboard when brimmed, is also causing the tire issues to a degree, too. Pirelli is dropping the ball, that's beyond question, but the FIA and FOM have sort of put them in this position. But still, Bridgestone never had these types of issues in the '09-10 period, and Michelin only had similar issues at Indy in '05 and Bridgestone had those issues early in '05, mostly with Ferrari. Last edited by chernaudi; 12 May 2013 at 17:26. |
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12 May 2013, 17:33 (Ref:3246317) | #304 | ||
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And you agree that there is nothing wrong with 80 odd pit stops? It shouldn't be, but it quite so often is. You have also used Montezemolo's exact quote about the 2005 F1 championship. |
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12 May 2013, 17:34 (Ref:3246319) | #305 | ||
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Ontop of making tires actually hold up, they should either bring all the compounds or let the teams each choose the two they want to use. That's when we will see some strategy.
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12 May 2013, 17:41 (Ref:3246322) | #306 | |||
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Yes but the Massa accident was a freak accident, not often do we see bits of suspension flying through the air at speed.. I am not sure I understand what you mean by the "80 pit stop" bit ? |
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12 May 2013, 17:51 (Ref:3246338) | #307 | ||
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No! No! No! It's been demonstrated to be dangerous on more than one occasion and will only lead to races where we wait for one car to pit followed quickly by several more following suit in order to cover every other cars strategy. That is boring!
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Michelin and Bridgestone both spent many, many, many millions of dollars and did many, many, many thousands of kilometres of tyre testing. This included pre-season testing and in-season testing, but still they managed to make tyres that failed?! |
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12 May 2013, 17:59 (Ref:3246342) | #308 | |||
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I was under the impression that your only concern was with tyre debris? Which still isn't anywhere near as common place as having bits of car flying around. In fact, it is this 'debris' that causes most of the tyre problems. |
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12 May 2013, 18:42 (Ref:3246366) | #309 | ||
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Bringing all the compounds is reliant on making them all able to hold up much more than they currently do.
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12 May 2013, 20:00 (Ref:3246391) | #310 | ||
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Although I agree on the fact that pitstops after 7 laps, and drivers needing 4 pitstops per race is a bit over the top, I couldn't help notice that Raikonen was able today to finish on the podium today with 3 pitstops, more or less pushing all the way. That in itself is already pretty impressive, but he managed to do it on the softer tire in 3 of his 4 stints!
Ergo, instead of beating Pirelli, we could also point at most teams not being able to solve a problem, that Lotus apparantly have solved. Maybe they should relocate a few of their engineers from the windtunnel to the suspensiondepartment... |
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12 May 2013, 22:11 (Ref:3246443) | #311 | ||
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Pirelli can't win in this situation. If they had made tyres that lasted and cars were one or two stopping, people would be complaining about the lack of overtaking. Instead we are now complaining about the lack of tyre life.
What should happen is compounds should be set by October 31st the previous year, and teams allowed to test them after the final GP of the year. They can then build cars to get the best out of the tyres. Part of F1 should be the ability to make the tyres available work. They all have the same tyres and some teams are better than others at doing that. |
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13 May 2013, 00:57 (Ref:3246481) | #312 | |||
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Still makes for interesting racing, go hard and get shuffled back, or run at 95 % then come home strong, its a gamble but , like the V8's different winners at each round makes for better racing for all . Or we could go back to Boring F1, he who is on pole, leads all the way. And have one trophy, the Drivers champ. If you want the team trophy , then include tyre stops, etc, and see what team can set a car up, can service a car and get both home to score points for the team. |
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13 May 2013, 07:54 (Ref:3246587) | #313 | |
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Pirelli ponders revising Formula 1 tyres in time for British GP
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/107400 If it's true that the current situation is good for the sport and it's true that everyone is happy except RBR, as some people claim (and Pirelli claim), then why would they consider a full tyre revamp in time for Silverstone ? I don't buy this "We want to get back to our plan" (2 pit stops with current tyres) thing, that is not possible they already knew it before the start of the season. Even if it was true, then why did it take so long to consider getting back to their "plan" ? Who was preventing them from doing so ? I also love, the way Pirelli always try to play the Superhero role telling how hard they fight to prevent RBR (the Villain) from taking control of the tyre situation Come on, who do you think you are fooling with this Hollywood-like acting ? They don't have that power unless half the teams support them, and even so, it would be almost impossible if Ferrari is not one of the teams supporting the change. |
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13 May 2013, 12:01 (Ref:3246690) | #314 | |
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Red Bull want more durable tyres.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/107402 Lotus don't. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/107403 Mercedes, meanwhile, are the new Toyota. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/107404 |
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13 May 2013, 12:09 (Ref:3246693) | #315 | ||
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Yep - with you all the way on that one. Apart from the safety aspect of re-fuelling - going back to it would introduce more boredom into F1 as the result of the sprint races. Pirelli just seem to be bringing too soft compounds to each circuit. I can understand they might get it wrong for a new circuit, but now that they have the information this sort of thing shouldn't happen. |
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13 May 2013, 12:41 (Ref:3246714) | #316 | ||
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13 May 2013, 14:04 (Ref:3246751) | #317 | ||
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Had a thought during the race yesterday, have the tyres that are being used punishing teams with too high downforce? (if so, good) Merc were in a different league in qualy where grip is of utmost importance but were telling LH to slow in the corners to not overuse the tyre. Ferrari were fast in a straight line, maybe they trimmed it a little.
As for delamination, I saw one car have an issue on 1 tyre. we probably had close to 100 sets of tyres used in the race, a failure rate of <0.5%. Bad set up could have caused it too, don't jump down pirellis throat too fast, they provide the tyres, the teams decide what to do with them. |
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13 May 2013, 15:11 (Ref:3246770) | #318 | |||
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i wonder if they simply brought two different and more appropriate compounds would we still have seen the same thing though. for me the question now has to be would i prefer to see a race where a car will complete the race with a slower over all time but having to pit less or a race where they travel the race distance in the fastest possible time but with 4 stops? million dollar question i guess? |
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13 May 2013, 15:27 (Ref:3246778) | #319 | |||
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Also "the teams decide what to do with them.", do you mean they are at fault for just wanting to go as fast as they can ? Isn't this racing ? Isn't this the pinnacle of motorsport ? How can it be ok for the best drivers in the world driving the fastest cars in the world to avoid competing and trying hard just to be able to finish without stopping 5 times for a tyre change ? |
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13 May 2013, 17:03 (Ref:3246815) | #320 | ||
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Paul Hembery is really starting to irritate me, with his ridiculous claims that Pirelli are the only thing stopping F1 returning to the bad old "procession" races of years ago.
I'm sorry but since those days we now have DRS and KERS to at least give some chance of overtaking and provide a little entertainment. All that Pirelli are doing is preventing the fastest Driver/Car combination on a given race weekend from winning. If I want to watch endurance racing I tune into WEC Le Mans... |
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13 May 2013, 17:38 (Ref:3246823) | #321 | ||
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I still dont understand the basis of a car having too much downforce killing the tyre. In years gone by it was the car which had the most downforce which kept the tyres in good condition. So what's changed?
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13 May 2013, 17:40 (Ref:3246824) | #322 | |
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The reality of the whole situation is that everyone inside the F1 circus is looking after number 1. It will take someone very strong - or a group - to break out and say "you know what, we're *all* doing it wrong".
Tyres, DRS, testing limitations, caps on wind tunnel running, the team curfew, over-tight specifications, fiddling with engine regulations - they've all come from absorbed self-interest. The show *must* go on, and hang the (largely unintended) consequences. Until somebody finds themselves able to remove their head from the collective hiding place that they've all stowed them, nothing will improve. It will change, but it won't necessarily improve (as we've seen)... |
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13 May 2013, 17:47 (Ref:3246833) | #323 | ||
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Pirelli can bring back boring processional racing, if that's what fans and teams want. Sounds like Pirelli have completely misunderstood the situation.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/107415 |
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13 May 2013, 17:50 (Ref:3246836) | #324 | |||
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it is racing, first person to cover prescribed distance wins = race in my book pinnacle of motorsport? well they spend the most money if that means anything Kimi tried pretty hard and only stopped 3 times. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/22403794 read the last 6 or seven paragraphs of the above, does it sound familiar? |
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13 May 2013, 18:25 (Ref:3246861) | #325 | |||
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