2015 Silly Season

[one five five]

Originally Posted by bluesport

And the mass market car always had a performance variant (Falcon GT, XR8 etc).........Mondeo (or whatever) won't have that........we don't want another Nissan Altima clone.

Who says there won't be a performance variant of a Mondeo? They have had them before.

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by one five five

Who says there won't be a performance variant of a Mondeo? They have had them before.

Give me a break mate. Who really wants a "performance" Mondeo?........what do you think the "Mon" stands for in Mondeo?..........MONOTONY!!!

[peckstar]

I think ford will go, can't see any reason for them to stay

[BlueBlood]

[QUOTE=one five five;3425213]When Moffat & Geoghegan were racing Mustang's Ford were only interested in Falcon's.



/QUOTE]


Difference now is there will be right hook Mustangs available to "Sell on Monday" and there won't be a V8 Falcon

[Chris - Melb]

Originally Posted by peckstar

I think ford will go, can't see any reason for them to stay

I can; their market research says it's worthwhile to be involved. Probably the same research results that importers Nissan and Volvo came up with.

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by bluesport

Give me a break mate. Who really wants a "performance" Mondeo?........what do you think the "Mon" stands for in Mondeo?..........MONOTONY!!!

Do you know how ****ing boring the standard Sierra was?

[Umai Naa]

Same applies to base model Falcon and Commodore.

Hell, there isn't even a performance model Altima here.

The Mondeo as a road car, is better built, better equipped, safer, and much nicer to drive than the FG Falcon. Sure, it doesn't appeal to the knuckle draggers, but in a few years time, they won't have another choice for a blue oval mid-large sedan.

To use the Mustang, makes no sense if they're leveraging their V8SC activities to sell cars.

[Mixer]

Your tastes must be different to mine, Umai Naa, I think the Mondeo is everything that is wrong with large front wheel drive cars, it has an appalling turning circle and dull handling and its engines are too small for its heft.

If we end up with a yank tank instead of the Falcon it will probably be more of the same.

I feel that V8s might have to allow different sizes of vehicle in, Toyota and Mazda are fighting for leadership of the next segment down, and the Focus might be a much better bet for strong sales to recoup a marketing investment.

And guess what, there are already some made

[Umai Naa]

In my line of work, I drive a large variety of different cars.

The current Mondeo is one of the better ones for its class.

[Mixer]

True to say lots of people buy Camrys and Corollas and Mazda 3s and I don't think that much of them either.

Can we at least have a Focus ST?

[mikuni]

Here is the new Ford Falcon. It has a 6 cylinder engine and all wheel drive so will tow the boat. It's turbocharged, so quicker than the outgoing performance models but will use less petrol. It is better spec'd than the current range, and priced similarly. I'm sure this model would sell very well.


Except to some, when they see the badge on the back actually says Mondeo, not Falcon. Then they will hate it. But realistically, those people probably won't be in a position to buy one anyway.

[Mixer]

It looks good, but what mythical turbocharged 6 are you talking about?

Base Mondeo is a gutless FWD NA snorebox. Best engine (IMO) is the 2l Ecoboost, which nobody wanted in the Falcon, and I'd argue that 300nm isn't really enough for a 1.5t car to feel quick.

[peckstar]

sales for may 2014 of the mondeo was about 250 cars

Interesting that the entire large car market (ie falcon and commodore) was the equivelent to the toyota corolla by itself for May.

[mikuni]

Originally Posted by Mixer

It looks good, but what mythical turbocharged 6 are you talking about?

Base Mondeo is a gutless FWD NA snorebox. Best engine (IMO) is the 2l Ecoboost, which nobody wanted in the Falcon, and I'd argue that 300nm isn't really enough for a 1.5t car to feel quick.

Its actually not a 6 cylinder, but the 2015 Ford Fusion (the likely base for the future mid-large sized Ford) is expected to get the 2.3l ecoboost that is set for the Mustang. This has around 305bhp (225kW) and 400Nm, so it should get along alright.

I knew the Fusion used to have a 6 cylinder, so expected the next model to carry this over, but it appears Ford are downsizing their motors as many other manufacturers are.

[Mixer]

I wholeheartedly agree that smaller turbo engines are the future of enjoyable, responsible motoring. This is also probably going to indicate a shift to transverse engines and FWD/AWD.

I am just not sure you can convince the boofheads that this is a good idea.

I have a turbo FWD car myself but I can't stand most of the mid-size or bigger FWD cars, they handle like boats. If we're going to get some American dreck, you can guarantee it will handle like a boat.

[GTRMagic]

So.. Pedders Suspension might just be on the ground floor of a great opportunity to sell sports handling kits for all kinds of cars, including the Altima

[peckstar]

V8 SUPERCARS CONSIDERS POST-V8 FUTURE

seems the series is already working on what happens next

personally im leaning towards something similar to the MARC Cars' Focus V8, that where vehicle sales are now. (well not v8s but that size car)

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

So.. Pedders Suspension might just be on the ground floor of a great opportunity to sell sports handling kits for all kinds of cars, including the Altima

Well the Mazda 6 MPS was pretty special, as was I thought the TRD Aurion. Neither are still available so maybe I have to accept that I am in the minority.

But there's too many uninspiring econoboxes, maybe any future manufacturers should take a leaf out of Volvo's book and have a performance model you can promote while still selling the cooking model.

Originally Posted by peckstar

personally im leaning towards something similar to the MARC Cars' Focus V8, that where vehicle sales are now. (well not v8s but that size car)

I agree, the MARC Focus look hot, if this is the future of the category sign me up.

[eduardo1]

Originally Posted by peckstar

V8 SUPERCARS CONSIDERS POST-V8 FUTURE

seems the series is already working on what happens next

personally im leaning towards something similar to the MARC Cars' Focus V8, that where vehicle sales are now. (well not v8s but that size car)

Given that family sedans by Holden and Ford have underpinned the Australian touring car championship pretty much since its inception, any move away from that is going to be very difficult to get mass acceptance.

Think of the protests of suburban Melbourne AFL and Sydney NRL teams that folded. There are people who, 15 years later, refuse to watch rugby league because their North Sydney Bears were closed. The same will happen if/when the Commodore/Falcon is no longer part of the show.

Same goes for NSL fans when the A-League was introduced and their traditional teams weren't a part of it.

People don't like change and even though all of those competitions are now stronger, you can't keep everybody when you do change.

The A-League has 10s of 1000s of new fans that would never have gone to an NSL match, despite the issues the competition has had over the past 8 years.

I'm not saying this is a linear argument because it's not exactly like-for-like. NSL was a failing comp, AFL/NRL had bankrupt clubs - V8SC is a currently strong competition but its cars are becoming less relevant to the population.

Speaking personally - so long as the cars look good, sound loud and go fast and it's an evolutionary change - it could work well. In fact it will need to.

[mikuni]

Originally Posted by eduardo1

Speaking personally - so long as the cars look good, sound loud and go fast and it's an evolutionary change - it could work well. In fact it will need to.

I agree with this. As long as the series can attract both teams (+ manufacturers) and fans, then it ain’t broke. Why fix it?

Manipulating the series to mimic what is happening on the road does not necessarily make sense some times. Look at F1 and WTCC trying to stay relevant to attract manufacturers. It ruins the spectacle to a certain degree, and they seem to be alienating a lot of fans. While I agree with it in a global FIA series like these, the ATCC does not need it, and has managed to build an extremely popular and successful series with its own rules.

It will be an interesting few years to see where it goes, and what the manufacturers and teams do.

[eduardo1]

Originally Posted by mikuni

I agree with this. As long as the series can attract both teams (+ manufacturers) and fans, then it ain’t broke. Why fix it?

Manipulating the series to mimic what is happening on the road does not necessarily make sense some times. Look at F1 and WTCC trying to stay relevant to attract manufacturers. It ruins the spectacle to a certain degree, and they seem to be alienating a lot of fans. While I agree with it in a global FIA series like these, the ATCC does not need it, and has managed to build an extremely popular and successful series with its own rules.

It will be an interesting few years to see where it goes, and what the manufacturers and teams do.

While I hate to disagree with someone who so nicely agreed with me...

F1's problem is not really around the noise of the engines. The drop-off of viewers and audience is down to:
- The move to Pay TV in a lot of major markets
- No longer showing the F1 on TV in China
- The antiquated business model of F1 catching up to them around promotion and fan engagement.

But since this is not an F1 forum, I won't go into any more detail.

But on topic, the question of on-road relevance is important for professional motorsport. Had these rules not come in, Mercedes would have left F1 and Honda would not have joined.

If there's no relevance for car manufacturers to at least promote an alignment (no matter how tenuous - and there's no real connection between V8s and their road-going models) then they won't be involved.

Volvo's a great example - they have publicly said in Europe that V8s are dinosaurs and their roadgoing cars are headed in the small-capacity turbo direction - but they've just joined V8s as a pure marketing activation to promote their family sedan.

So as the mass market sales change from large family cars to smaller cars, so too V8s will need to change. That may well just mean they shoehorn V8 engines into smaller engine bays, or they may go to high performance V6 turbos or maybe something else.

But with the demise of Falcon and, probably, Commodore, the series has an opportunity to evolve itself without having to adhere to the baggage* of legacy models.

*Baggage is not intended as a slight against Ford & Holden, but rather fan expectations that these two models are the centre of the touring car universe.

[mikuni]

Believe it or not, I still agree with you.

I understand what is happening with F1, and why it needed to change to keep manufacturers, but what about the fans? Either way, that is a separate issue. I was more pointing out the fact that V8 Supercars haven't made the move yet, and is still very popular.

Many of us will agree that the best car to do the daily commute, or drive down to the shops in, isn't necessarily a good car to watch in motorsport. So moving motorsport to replicate what we have on the road may mean the demise of it entirely?

I'm merely suggesting that V8 Supercars be careful if they look to downsize and go turbo like everyone else is, to reflect what is happening on the road, incase it ruins what everyone wants to see in motorsport.

I'm not even really one of those people either, my favourite cars of all time are 2 litre supertourers, so I wouldn't mind if they got smaller, but I know not everyone is a weirdo like me, and seeing big grunty racing cars battling it out is something that is increasingly unique in modern motorsport.

[Umai Naa]

Hopefully, it'll be an evolution of bodystyles and technology, rather than a major revamp of the core ingredient, which is the V8 engine.

[fomoco]

A lot of intelligent posts here, One problem Manufacturers face in the growing world, is meeting eviroment regulations, espacially the Euro restrictions. These restrictioneds did kill a Ford and GM V8 engine, as they couldnt meet the emmisions restrictions.

Now I love the sound of a bent 8 , and whilst V6 turbos are efiecient on fule use, and the Eco boost 4cyl from Ford is supposed the ducks nuts, I would still like the V8.

To do this would require some massive engineering to build, mass produce , sell and make profit to keep a company going.

You could say , to hell with Euro regs, we will still drive V8's. Now that will be hard in the future, but at least we can have a great field of historic V8's.

Unfourtunatley, car manufactures have to go with there major markets to stay afloat, so if Euro regs, emmision controls , etc lead to changing to V6 turbo's or Eco boost 4 cyls then , Australian Motosport must move that way or we go racing historic V8's.

Yes F1 has screwed up, maybe a different set of headers and exhaust tweeking could bring the sound back, but , I think in the next 10 years, it will be V6 Turbo or 4cly Turbo, .


Falcs and Commy will be recycled by Simms Metal, shipped off shore , and returned as the latest incarnation of Jazz, Fiesta, Focus, etc etc

Sad but true.

[Mixer]

Everyone is hating on the F1 V6s but I LOVE them.

The torque delivery means the drivers have to DRIVE them. They are not stuck down like playstation games. They have 3 times as much torque as the V8s accelerating out of corners and you can see it!

The quieter engines mean you can hear the tyres squeal, and I love all the mechanical noises of the turbos.

OK Merc is running away with it but they did a better job - an engine freeze in the first year is ****ing dumb.

I dunno what people are whining about, the F1 has been pretty damn entertaining this year, Merc domination aside.